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Scale Steps...

Posted: 14 Jun 2017 6:31 pm
by Ron Bednar
Hi folks!
After a couple strokes and a heart attack I'm up and at it again.

When I first started playing and took lessons from good buddy Pete Grant, Pete taught me using scale steps instead of tabs.

My question is: How many of you also use scale steps?
And would you like to see a software program that offers creating scale steps as an option along with the standard tabs and musical notation when importing midis?

I happened to write and suggest scale steps as an option in the TablEdit program that I use and the owner became interested.
He approached me to help them look at the concept and said writing the code for adding scale steps would not be a big deal...which I kind of thought it would be.
He and the code guy asked to help find out if people would like to see it added and so I'm posting here.

What do you think, would you like scale steps as a notation option in TablEdit?
Please let me know what you think.

Posted: 14 Jun 2017 8:56 pm
by Jim Cohen
When you say "scale steps" do you mean the 'number system'? In other words, are you talking about root, 5th, flat-7th, sharp-4, etc. instead of D, A C, G#, etc.?

Posted: 14 Jun 2017 9:31 pm
by Ron Bednar
Hi Jim,
Well it's not the Nashville Number System but similar. Scale steps are the same as intervals.
Tab editors scribe midi's usually in tabs or standard musical notation, scale steps would be another option.
Scale steps are the numbers in a scale, for instance the root is 1 and so on through 7, no matter what the scale is the notes have a corresponding number from 1 to 7.
Another example would be a trichord, like D is D,F#,A, the D is the root or 1 the F# is the 3rd of the D scale, the A is the 5th of the D scale, the chord is 1,3,5...
those are scale steps.
So noting a song in scale steps is different than tabs.
As an example here is Sunshine Of Your Love in Open D scale steps:
Image
Does this make sense?

Posted: 14 Jun 2017 10:16 pm
by Jim Cohen
Yes. Now, when the song goes to the IV chord, do you start numbering in that key, or keep up with the initial numbering scheme (movable do vs fixed do)?

Posted: 14 Jun 2017 10:41 pm
by Ron Bednar
Jim,
You would stay with the original numbering system.
Maybe I'm a little confused? Not the first time.
Don't quite understand how changing the chord would change the key?
As in Open D the IV chord is G.

Posted: 15 Jun 2017 5:01 am
by Jim Cohen
Ron, it doesn't change the key but one often speaks of the scale degrees within a chord, such as the root, 3rd, 5th, b7th, etc., regardless of what function the overall chord has in the key. So there are (at least) two ways of using the numbers and I just wanted to be clear which way you're using them.

Posted: 15 Jun 2017 7:53 am
by Ron Bednar
Okidok! :)

Posted: 15 Jun 2017 7:54 am
by Erv Niehaus
The Western musical scale we use is called the pentatonic scale and is based on two whole tones and a half tone.

Posted: 15 Jun 2017 6:23 pm
by Ron Bednar
The Western musical scale we use is called the pentatonic scale and is based on two whole tones and a half tone.
Well Erv that's interesting and maybe worth it's own thread,
but I'm not quite sure what it has to do with if folks want a scale steps option in a tab editor?

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 7:06 am
by Erv Niehaus
Ron,
Gee, I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about music. :whoa:

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 9:47 am
by Ron Bednar
Sorry Erv didn't mean to dampen the fire.
But there doesn't seem to be much interest in intervals/scale steps in a tab editor so lets talk music.
I've been interested in modes myself since Paul McCartney wrote Eleanor Rigby in a mode not chords.
Modes are the ancestors of chordal music.
Where did you come up with the idea that the Western musical scale we use is based on the pentatonic scale?
Would like to hear about that.

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 10:42 am
by Erv Niehaus
I didn't come up with the idea.
I learned it from my guitar(and music) instructor some 60 years ago.
Just do a google search and you will learn all about it for yourself. :D
The pentatonic scale is why we have:
C to D, a whole step
D to E, a whole step
and E to F, a half step

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 10:44 am
by Brad Davis
I'm not sure everyone has a good idea what you meant by scale steps. Now that you describe it I think its basically what I assumed.

I tend to think in a mix of intervals and chords, but I'm not certain if I would really use it in a tab program. You're putting the mental effort of transposing the tab to the desired key up front, rather than letting the player do it later once they have learned the basic tune wherever it is nominally played. Depending on how you learned and how you think that may or may not be a big deal. I move tunes I've already learned around the neck all the time to hear the different timbre or to accommodate a singer.

Still if its easy enough to add the feature to Tabledit then why not? I would think he could let me just enter my tune the conventional way and just have a quick convert to scale steps feature, or let you enter scale steps directly if that's what you like and then convert to tab in a specific key when needed.

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 12:10 pm
by Ron Bednar
Yes, that is the general idea Brad.To have the option of the song scribed out in intervals/scale steps as well as tabs and standard notation.

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 12:24 pm
by Stefan Robertson
I'm thinking it would be a great idea having Chord degrees

rather than scale steps.

Eg if there was an option for CM7 set for one bar
then when you write out a scale it then also offers a feature of displaying the notes you enter based on the degree of the chord.

So you may do a M7#5 and it would display the degrees/notes by a simple setting.

I guess thinking about arbitrary scales without a chord focus is random.

Like If I'm playing a CM Ionian mode starting from the D its actually a D dorian

But If ,my chord for the bar is a Dm7 Would it still calculate the degrees based on the CM Ionian scale or the Dm7 Chord???

Or is that what you are offering?

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 12:27 pm
by Erv Niehaus
I hope I'm not the only one that's confused. :whoa:

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 1:19 pm
by Larry Carlson
Erv Niehaus wrote:I hope I'm not the only one that's confused. :whoa:
Take my word for it.....you're not..... :mrgreen:

Posted: 16 Jun 2017 3:00 pm
by Ron Bednar
I'm right there with you Erv.
Or is that what you are offering?
Nope. :) :D