The Steel Guitar Forum

Since the invention of the Internet, things have become a lot more visible from a far.

It amazes me to see the amount of people who buy then sale their musical instrument because they think it doesn't give them 'that sound'.

You see it all over the place, blowing money left and right, buying toys and gimmicks looking for a fast easy superficial ticket....to good.

'I don't sound like Brent mason because I'm playing a red telecaster, if I get a grey one with the mason mod I'll sound just like him' and...I can't get that Buddy Emmons sound with this steel, I need a Push pull, (what's his copedant) only to find after 1000's of dollars later it sounds pretty much the same.

Big companies of all hobbies push, and brainwash this, making millions per year on this fluff, just like golf, they got their ' you got to have this brand to be good' marketing, and OMG people fall for that, they never promote the cold hard truth, chop building and blood and sweat.

Working the chops seems to be the last item on the list....you can't 'BUY' Tone, Technique, or Talent, enjoy what you got and hone your tone with what you own!

Mostly, I agree.

But actually, you can – to a certain degree, under certain circumstances.

If you have got a really crappy guitar/amp/stompbox or whatever, and upgrade to something good, it will feel better. And when you feel better about your playing, you will play and sound a bit better. Not much, but a bit.

Once you've taken the step up from truly inferior equipment though, you very soon reach the peak on the curve and get very little return on further investments.

Wish I could practice what I preach. GAS is an addictive disease...

I also sort of disagree. I just switched from a Nashville 400 to a MarkBass head into the same speaker (still in the NV400 cabinet), and they don't sound much like each other. And I have been swapping my Telonics Neo 15" with my BW 1504. Again, big difference. I was using the same Hall of fame reverb, hilton pedal, etc.

I owned a ZB D10 and a Kline D10. They sounded different. Again, I had the Kline and a Super Pro. No way did they sound anything like each other.

Nothing makes me play better or worse than anything else.

I went from a somewhat thin sounding Emmons PP years ago to a fat sounding classic Sho-Bud Pro-II Custom with OEM pickups. Instantly my tone was room filling, fat sounding wall to wall sound albeit with less sustain than the PP. Cost me $225 after trade-in. Other band members and even audience members remarked right away about the total sound transformation. It's not necessary to have boutique or high end gear to get great sound. It's just necessary to get the type of gear that's suited to your tonal preferences.

There's some truth to the idea that people get too hung up on constantly swapping gear in the chase of that elusive " tone". I have heard many players with uber expensive boutique guitars and amps deliver totally un-inspiring performances. And, more importantly, heard some very talented pro's play amazing shows with inexpensive gear and blow some minds.
I think the most important thing is to have good quality functioning gear that works consistently, stays in tune and doesn't fail you when it counts. Way more important than the price-tag. Boutique gear will not make you play or sound any better than you are. But nothing will ruin your night worse than an amp that cuts out, volume pedal that breaks in the middle of a solo or a guitar that will not stay in tune for 5 minutes.

I tend to agree with the original post. I've worked with a lot of guitarists who have "upgraded" their gear... new amp, new guitar & effects. They tweak a few knobs and within a few minutes they have the same basic sound they had before. About 90% the same, and maybe 10% different IMO. Not enough to justify spending thousands of dollars. But they keep looking for the silver bullet that will take them to the next level... special pickups, a certain amp or effect. The best upgrade of all is Practice.

I have heard many players with uber expensive boutique guitars and amps deliver totally un-inspiring performances. And, more importantly, heard some very talented pro's play amazing shows with inexpensive gear and blow some minds.

I agree! That reminds me of the Jerry Byrd quote... "If you can play it doesn't matter what guitar you use. If you Can't play it doesn't matter what guitar you use."

Also, here's a flip side of the same coin. I once had a Fender amp which I absolutely loved, it sounded great in every room, nice rich beautiful sustain - every note rang clear. I was completely happy with my sound every time I turned it on. Then one day a power tube failed. I took to get it re-tubed professionally by a well respected local amp guy. Amp never sounded good again - thin, breaks up at low volumes, just not good. I took it back a half dozen times, tried all different brands of tubes, never got that sweet sound back. Ended up getting a different amp out of frustration.

Back in 1982 I heard Buddy Emmons playing an MSA S-10 through a little Peavey Bandit amp at Jeff Newman's school. Just the guitar -> volume pedal -> amp. His sound was amazing! It filled the whole room. That big, beautiful sound was there. That's when I realized that the magic is in the Player, not in the gear.

I think we crave variety. Playing day after day through the same rig is going to get old. Larry and Per make excellent points.

Every once in while I will try some bizarre tone settings on my amp, or set the multi-fx unit to a patch I would never use, and suddenly discover I don't know how to play. After about an hour of that, going back to my "normal" tone is like being able to breathe again.

Speaking generally, and thinking of instruments that I know a lot more about than pedal steels (such as clarinets and trombones), I find that instruments vary in tone in the sense that they vary in the ease with which you can get the tone you like. You will always sound like you, but your favourite horn is the one that requires the least effort to achieve it.

Greg says it succinctly:- "It's just necessary to get the type of gear that's suited to your tonal preferences."

I think you can buy tone to an extent, but you can't buy talent.

All great, positive and thoughtful replies, i respectfully agree with all.

I just bought a 1970-ish Sho~Bud Professional. I've had 4 Carters, another Bud and 2 Millers. The Millers sounded really good. The Carters all played great and sounded good, but I sold all of them because they just didn't have a "lively" tone. This Professional is actually in a category tone-wise that I didn't even expect. I'd heard people play guitars with that kind of tone, but didn't understand what an instrument feels like that can actually produce it. I'm not a very good player, but i play in tune (mostly) and can get around on both necks. This thing feels alive. It really surprised me. Boy, I can hear every nuance in my right hand technique. Yikes! I used to sound like an average player. Now I sound like an average player on a freaking killer steel.

I bought good tone. The Professional and a 1979 Session 400 is way more than I deserve. But, I'm more inspired than ever. I'm so glad I bought it.

I certainly agree most of the good stuff is in the hands and imagination of the player. But, a great instrument is also different than an average one.

I think most folks here buy the flavor of the month not expecting to sound like their idols. It's just a hobby. And it's fun to try different stuff.

A young up and coming steelier from my area once told me. (You make every guitar you play sound like and Emmons). Being a fan of the sound of most Emmons guitars. I was flattered at first.
But after thinking it over. What my young friend was really saying.

No matter where you go. There you are.

b.

I've written songs on new guitars. I think a lot people get inspired by a new tool.

And yes, it is easier to gawk at gear online than to practice something that frustrates you. Many of us are guilty as charged.

Sometimes, the best cure for GAS is a visit to a local music store. Bring along your same-old and compare it with the shiny new object. Plus, the inflicted misery of the modern music store will send you back to the peace and quiet of your practice room.

J

My deeper viewpoints are this:
There are three MAJOR ingredients that create the final Tone.

1) Timbre (the woods natural ability to resonate)
2) Frequency (The amplifiers electrical interpretation of its received signal)
3) Player input (Touch, blocking, volume control, etc, etc, etc) Vital inputs!!!

Of course there are minor inputs too: Cables, pot pedals, Eq, signal loss/boost etc etc.

I also believe, that a guitar does not have Tone, it has vibrations which will be one of the inputs to the final Tone, changing guitars means changing the Timbre, and very seldom do two pieces of wood vibrate the same, so even the same make year model, would not vibrate the same Timbre, that's why I don't buy into the (brand name) Tone game, the Emmons sound? The Sho Bud sound? trees are not that consistent. At the end of the day it will be the players sound that you hear not the brand name. Blindfolded not one person could ever pick out a certain brand if you did a test of say 25 brands.

I believe that you can buy Timbre and you can buy Frequency but Tone alone is not purchasable, you have to earn it.......remember the old Chet Atkins story: hey Chet, that guitar you are playing sounds incredible, I need one of those, as Chet used to say when he put the guitar back on the stand: Soooooo How does it sound now???

Like education, the ability to coax sound out of an instrument is something you can't buy. What you put into it is the main ingredient - people who have a level of innate ability and the drive to make it happen can prosper in many settings (education) or many choices of gear (music).

But just as it often makes a difference where one goes to school, it often makes a difference what instrument, amp, accessories, and so on one plays. For some, going to Hahvad, Yale, MIT, Stanford, or another of the "elite" academies is the way to go. But others are probably better off somewhere else a lot less "elite" and less expensive. Similarly, some players are better off with a 60s push-pull, a Franklin, a Zum, a Super 400, a real 50s Les Paul or Tele, a Dumble, or a pre-war D28 - and others are better off with a much less expensive guitar like an old MSA, and old Fender 800, a reissue Tele, an old Teisco or Dano guitar, or a Peavey Session 400. There are lots of great instruments out there, and it doesn't always have anything to do with price or marketing hype.

But different guitars sound and feel different. Different amps sound and feel different. Same with effects, accessories, and so on. Beyond that, I think many players evolve and what works for them changes over time. Or sometimes a particular instrument or amp will "channel" a player in a particular direction. You pays your money and takes your choices.

But I think a player has to work to make the connection with an instrument or other gear. In spite of what some marketeers purvey, you don't just pick up a great, expensive instrument and it plays itself. But that doesn't mean it's not worth it to be discriminating about what one plays.

Larry you are hitting the nail about life. Be happy with what God has given you.I have my first steel this past Christmas and learning to play I am 64 a guitar player for almost all my life. We have a little country band and are playing a church picnic in a couple months. Yes I'm playing the PSG. The best that I can.But I'm can't play like Jerry Overstreet but I'm going to have fun with what God has given me Enjoy you life before your time is up. My email is jarsetfree YES Jesus is my Lord. Jerry R.

I have in the past heard some very big name players sound have just awful playing through rack setups with compression or certain amps or certain guitars. They were still playing great but the sound was awful. Equipment is a big factor in the sound you here. I've heard relatively mediocre player with no chops produce an awesome sound out of their setup.

Thanks fella's, appreciate your honest input on this delicate and eccentric topic.

One of my hobbies is wood turning. I heard one person ask a Professional Wood Turner how long it took him to make a particular turning. Reply: About 30 years.

I also believe, that a guitar does not have Tone,

I disagree, Set an Emmons, LeGrande or P/p beside a Franklin, Sho~Bud, MSA, Fender, etc. And you'll hear a different tone from each. Even unplugged. They all have their own voice. Some are brighter, darker, Stronger mid-rage, etc. Not just the wood. But the design of the guitar, even the way the mica is applied will make a difference in the over all voice.

b.

Here's an example of 'That Sho-Bud sound' on a Non sho-bud.

The trick is to NOT listen with your eyes.

https://youtu.be/IbjViunwfvQ

Huge difference in tone between pickups. Put two pickups out of phase like with the Emmons Pentad pickup or take off or add a few hundred ohms of wire from a pickup and you will here a huge difference in tone. Same thing for passive vs. buffered volume pedals, cords, amps, etc. Some combinations of gear will produce the tone you like, some will not and then you will have to go find and purchase the right gear for you. Of course bad technique or lack of technique can produce bad tone.

Everything affects everything.

I agree that guitars have slightly different tones due to their construction and electronics, but a player (whether he's a great player or a poor player) will sound like himself on any steel guitar, regardless of the tone of the guitar. The player is far more important to the overall sound than the gear used IMO. The itty bitty differences in tone between the guitars are only important to steel geeks like us.