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Topic: Keyless vs Keys |
Jeff Strouse
From:
Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2005 2:20 am |
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Hi All -
I'm a no-peddler, but hope you all don't mind me posting a question here  ...I didn't get much response in No-Peddlers, so thought I'd post here since I've only seen Keyless tuners on pedal steels anyway.
I'm in the middle of stringing up all my guitars (all the plain strings seem to have rust on them), which is making me wonder about how nice it might be to have a keyless guitar.
What are the pros and cons to going keyless (there must be some cons, otherwise, all guitars would be keyless, right?! )
My eventual thought is a single neck keyless guitar with one of those hipshot trilogys. I'm wanting something lightweight, simple, and portable...so I can put the guitar in backpack-type case and head for the beach. These triple necks are getting hard on a fella's back...
Thanks for any help!
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 7 Apr 2005 5:38 am
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Hi Jeff, I like your idea. If you could eliminate the headstock, you could have more area in front of the bridge for your Trilogy and still have a compact instrument.
I do not currently own a keyless guitar, but have had 2 of them in the past. I rather liked them.
I couldn't see any major advantage as far as time spent re-stringing although it is somewhat quicker. Mostly, I just liked the look and the smaller size.
String #3, G# on the E9 neck could sometimes be a pain to get up to pitch [pulled to A] but no big deal.
I probably have a tin ear, but I didn't notice any loss of harmonic content like some apparently have by losing the vibrating length behind the nut.
I don't know if anyone builds a lap or console model with keyless tuners, so your's might have to be a custom build or just DIY!
My Lamar had a keyless tuner unit that was only 1 1/2" long and pulled the strings at a 90° angle.
Be interested to hear how this works out if you decide to do it.
Good Luck! JO.
[This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 07 April 2005 at 06:45 AM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Apr 2005 12:15 pm
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Several keyless models have the downside of requiring a screwdriver or allen wrench to change strings. This is totally unacceptable to me. Also, I just like the look of keys!
I've never owned a keyless pedal steel, but the vast majority of professionals, both old and new, still seem to avoid using them, so there must be a reason. Don't you think? |
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Jon Jaffe
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 7 Apr 2005 12:43 pm
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| True, I use the same allen wrench that I use on my end plate, but I never have to use any wire cutters. A few twists of the string, and back in play. |
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ebb
From:
nj
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Posted 7 Apr 2005 7:21 pm
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| if you ever hear "if its good enough for [whoever]it's good enough for me" or "if[so and so]uses it then there must be a good reason that it is so"then you should accept this only as long as your are a rank beginner looking for the most remedial guidance. once you are ready for the plunge you should use this advice as a challenge to the dieing staus quo. in all business making decisions by proxy vs decisions by knowledge is fatal. [This message was edited by ebb on 08 April 2005 at 07:19 PM.] |
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Dan Burnham
From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Apr 2005 8:43 pm
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Jeff,
Ebb is right. Now I'm currently building a 12 string keyless Lapsteel with a 24 1/8 scale E13 Tuning.
I personally like Keyless because of size. My BMI 12 String Keyless is 29" in length total, and I love it.
My brother idoes a lot of studio work and personally doesn't like keyless.
Keyless ALL THE WAY, |
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ebb
From:
nj
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Posted 8 Apr 2005 6:10 pm
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from paul redmond builder of the whitney steel guitar of which i have one much to perlowin's consternation
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| For decades now, literally, Joe Kline, the late Zane Beck, Winnie Winston, Bill Rudolph, myself (remember the Whitney PSG’s w/changers at both ends?), and numerous others over the years, have been preaching the advantages of the keyless PSG over the standard peghead/keyed PSG. Don C. at Sierra proved to the world that you could go to a 25” scale using the same string gages without any adverse string breakage problems simply by going keyless/gearless. Gene Fields’ creations date back to the mid-1960’s – I have #11 Fender PS-210 built by Gene and am constantly amazed at its inherent mechanical accuracy. We’re talking 1960’s technology here, folks!! Gene’s present GFI’s are certainly no less accurate. Much of the so-called “cabinet drop” exhibited by many guitars is not “drop” at all. I was machining a set of Emmons tailpieces for Charlie Ward a few years back and noticed that there were only 4 screws holding the tailpieces to the body – 2 under the rollers and 2 at the very outer end. I called him and asked if I could drill and tap 2 more holes in between the existing holes. End results – 60% of the “cabinet drop” was eliminated!!! |
[This message was edited by ebb on 08 April 2005 at 07:14 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Apr 2005 6:44 pm
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ebb (that's Ed Bierly) said...
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| "then you should accept this only as long as your are a rank beginner looking for the most remedial guidance. |
Ed, I don't know how you feel about your own abilities, but I know that compared to the likes of players such as Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, Tommy White, and Doug Jernigan, I still consider myself a "rank beginner". 
Some who set out to blaze a new trail eventually do find a better way, but most just wind up getting lost. 
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Webb Kline
From:
Orangeville, PA
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Posted 8 Apr 2005 7:26 pm
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I honestly don't know if I could ever go back to keyed heads. I think the keyless head on my GFI is kinda ugly, but it is the most functional device I've ever had. It stays in tune amazingly well, hardly ever breaks a string and the few times I have, I could change it in the dark with no problem and much faster than a conventional tuner. The sustain on this guitar is great too, and I believe that it has a lot to do with the keyless head.
------------------
Webb--
Livin' out a dangerous faith 
GFI Ultra D10 8+8,
ZB 11/10 8+3 #0008
old as dirt Dobro
Harmony Lap...
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ebb
From:
nj
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Posted 9 Apr 2005 4:13 am
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| donny ive heard your clips and you aint no rank beginner. if this is such an open and shut case why did both sho~bud and emmons even bother to build keyless prototypes. listen i still use the same editor that i started with in 1983. are there better editors now? absolutely. would i expect a junior programmer to select my editor because he admired my coding skill? absolutely not. why don't i change? old dogs [This message was edited by ebb on 09 April 2005 at 05:14 AM.] |
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ed packard
From:
Show Low AZ
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Posted 9 Apr 2005 6:33 am
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Jeff; Take a look at the Keyless/Gearless approach on the BEAST (see Per Berners thread). It does not have to be on a changer so can easily be adapted to a lap steel ...on either end.
Re tools ...replace the string hold down screws with thumb screws, and voila, no tools needed. Fastest string change in the universe! Best played string to total string ratio around.
No sharp bends to break strings, shorter body, or longer scale. |
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