The Steel Guitar Forum

Are there any Linux users on the forum???? Curious about Linux.

Sonny Jenkins wrote:Are there any Linux users on the forum???? Curious about Linux.

I'm not a Linux user, but I gave thought to it a few times. Note that software is normally written to be run under either Windows or iOS, but not natively under Linux, is my understanding. Google "software that runs under Linux" without the quotes. You'll get a lot of hits.

There are several ways to do it, apparently, but it looks like it would be about as much fun as setting your hair on fire and beating it out with a tack hammer. My eyes glaze over pretty quickly reading them.

I can't get motivated to learn all that geeky stuff when my Windows box already does the job without it. Time is a finite thing - once you've spent it, you never get it back. I have better ways to spend mine than trying to learn Linux.

Sonny Jenkins wrote:Are there any Linux users on the forum???? Curious about Linux.

Sonny,

I am currently running Linux Mint on two older laptops. I have them both set up to dual boot to the old Windows versions (one XP, one Vista). It's great for running web, email, etc., without having to deal with the Windows update issues, ending browser support, etc. If there are apps that I want to run that are Windows only, I can boot back to Windows. And we have other machines in the house that are Windows only for now.

Eventually Linux and its associated software will end support for 32-bit processors, and I'll have to move on to newer hardware, but it's a great stepping stone. Firefox, Thunderbird, and the like have Linux versions available.

I'm sure there are others running Linux as well, they'll probably chime in...but my experience with it has been quite positive.

(Added:) The Linux system is able to access files that are on the Windows partition of the drive, which is quite convenient if you've got documents, pictures and/or audio/video files on the Windows system -- those files don't need to be moved to the Linux partition to be viewed/played by Linux apps.

Thanks for the response Randy. My main things are just "home" stuff,,,gmail, browsing, pictures, documents etc. I guess it has a way to manage (upload, download, "paint" capabilities etc) pictures and documents? What about wireless issues?

I added a paragraph to my post above regarding Linux access to files on the Windows 'side' of the drive... and yes, Linux Mint comes pre-packaged with Linux versions of many of the 'standard' apps that are typically needed to use those files.

As for wireless, the network manager app doesn't always display things correctly after laptop sleep/wakeup -- the little app says I'm connected to the wired connection, but the wifi still works fine. And it always works correctly after restart. I had some issues with this machine (long ago under Windows too!) with wifi dropping when network power conservation was being used. I had turned that off years ago under Windows, and found how to disable it under Linux too. It has worked fine since then, except for the tray icon/display being incorrect.

The other machine is actually using the wired network connection, and that works just fine.

When I've had to investigate how to make changes to the Linux system to get it to work the way I wanted, I was usually able to find answers on the web. Sometimes it required doing something on the command line and/or editing some sort of system config file. So when I've found the info and made it work, I've made sure to keep notes on what had to be done and how to do it so that I could do it again the next time!

And at the beginning, I made sure I had a complete image backup of my Windows machine before I did any partition cleanup and/or resizing and the Linux install, to make sure that I could start over if the installation procedure did something in a way that I didn't expect.

My wife and I run Linux Mint. The only problem you will run into is if you need to run wireless, you will need to buy a wireless adapter that operates with Linux (about $13 at Amazon). Most built in wifi adapters in laptops won't work. NIC cable always work.

Having a network printer (rather than a USB printer) will probably work better.

You will find some software you have run in Windoze will not have a Linux version. But, Linux Mint comes with so much in the package, you won't need to download much more.

It does run several audio processing / recording softwares, such as Audacity, Audacious, and several video and picture editing softwares.

AND, updates are not forced! You do them when you want them. That's a plus for me, as I am on Satellite Internet, so I can do my updates late at night in the "free time".

You can get a Live DVD to try Linux Mint. It will run slower than an install, but that way you can try it without installing it. You can also do bootable USB sticks with Linux on them.

I've been running Linux since the late 90's. Currently running a derivative of Debian Jessie called Devuan. I use it for most things, surfing, email, audio and video, also use GIMP for picture touch up. Libre Office handles everything I need to do in word processing. I also dual boot with windows, but only to run my ham radio programs (N0NC). I have Linux running on my desktop and two laptops, wireless works on both.

Interesting!! Can you "dual boot" on any computer?

Yes, pretty much. I had a friend that was set up to boot win 98, xp, dos,and 3 distributions of Linux on the same computer. Remember, to back up everything you can't stand to lose before you attempt the installation. As Randy and Scott suggested, try one of the "live" cds or dvds. It will be a little slow as it loads everything of the cd/dvd instead of the hard drive, but you can evaluate it to see if it fits your needs without installing it. Most of the "live" cd/dvds will let you install to the hard drive from the same media. Linux is not Windows, but mouse, keyboard, ect work the same. There are programs that are similar to what you find with windows, but some are not as polished or plentiful. Some however are better. The great thing about it is choice.

Chuck Miller wrote:The great thing about it is choice.

Linux Mint is even available with different desktop environments (Cinnamon, Mate, etc.) so you can choose which desktop/user interface that you like best. As Chuck said, it isn't Windows -- but it doesn't take too long working with it to figure things out. I use the Mate desktop version, and it's similar enough to Windows that it's pretty easy to get around. Once you get used to it, you don't even really think about it being a different OS.

The Forum server in Linux, but I've never used Linux as a personal computer. I think you'd need to be a bit of a techie geek because you have to go to the shell to do a lot of things with it.

b0b wrote:I think you'd need to be a bit of a techie geek because you have to go to the shell to do a lot of things with it.

b0b,

Distributions like Mint have helped that situation quite a bit, since they really are targeted at the end user - I don't think working with Linux is as difficult as it used to be. But I can't disagree, being a geek certainly doesn't hurt...

b0b wrote:I think you'd need to be a bit of a techie geek because you have to go to the shell to do a lot of things with it.

That was my objection in the 2nd post here. What's the point, given the other alternatives available?

Dave Potter wrote:What's the point, given the other alternatives available?

Linux has allowed me to continue to use older hardware that has old versions of those 'alternatives' installed. Keeps my machines running as MSFT and other software vendors pull support. I don't need to go buy new hardware and a new OS just because they've decided I should.

I realize it's not for everybody. But that's why I use it. Now that I've got things working the way I want them, I very, very rarely have to use the command line. Really not any more often than I used the command line in Windows.

B0b, I probably do something in terminal (shell) maybe once a month.

Thanks for all the responses and opinions. As ya'll probably see from my other posts,,,I'm a looooong way from being "tech savvy",,,,I'm more on the other end of the scale,,,LOL.

I was under the impression the the main advantage was security,,,not as many potential hackers? I do have a couple of old machines that would probably be ideal for Linux,,,I think they were before wifi was in.

Are the "trial" CDs expensive,,,guess I could go to website and kick some tires?

Sonny,

Linux Mint is free (and supported by donations). You can download the CD image (an ISO file) of whichever version/desktop you'd like to try (and that is appropriate for your hardware, 32/64 bit) from their website. You then use the CD burner program of your choice to burn that ISO to a CD (or create a bootable USB stick with a tool like unetbootin). You can then boot your machine from the CD (or stick) and play around with it as much as you'd like, without actually installing anything to your hard drive.

If you were to consider installing it later on, I would advise that you get some help with cleaning up/partitioning your hard drive and the Linux installation from someone who might have some experience with that process. You really don't want to render your computer useless by accident. As I said before, I make a complete image backup before I get started (and another one after cleanup/partition resizing), and I've had to use that backup to restore the computer and start again because the installation procedure did not do things as I had anticipated.

If you're not sure what you're doing, you probably don't want to do it without help, especially if you're trying to preserve the Windows installation for a dual-boot environment.

Randy Schneider wrote:Linux has allowed me to continue to use older hardware that has old versions of those 'alternatives' installed. Keeps my machines running as MSFT and other software vendors pull support. I don't need to go buy new hardware and a new OS just because they've decided I should.

I see. I actually look forward to buying new hardware AND new OSes (Win10 was free), since it nearly always means more features, better performance, reliability, and functionality.

I never feel coerced to do any of it, however. I do it voluntarily for the advantages above. If it ever got to a point where I felt "they" were forcing me into it, I'd just do without, and use my Android devices.

Dave,

Yes, these are machines that are/were running Win XP and Vista. As you know, XP is no longer supported and Vista is at the end of its support life as well. Browsers (Firefox, Chrome) will no longer supply updates to those environments either. Since these machines are used for little more than email/web activity, Linux provides an avenue to continue using them, and continue to receive both OS and application updates.

Eventually, all software will discontinue support for 32-bit processors. At that point, well...

Randy Schneider wrote:these are machines that are/were running Win XP and Vista. As you know, XP is no longer supported and Vista is at the end of its support life as well. Browsers (Firefox, Chrome) will no longer supply updates to those environments either. Since these machines are used for little more than email/web activity, Linux provides an avenue to continue using them, and continue to receive both OS and application updates.

Eventually, all software will discontinue support for 32-bit processors. At that point, well...

The determination, perseverance, and creativity of you guys trying to postpone the inevitable is amazing. Good luck!

And, always remember: "When in quicksand, STRUGGLE LIKE HELL!"

Well, I'm just one who doesn't see the need to buy a new machine when the one I have is still working fine. Plus, it was a great opportunity to get a feel for the Linux environment I didn't know much about. And, I became rather suspicious as to why MSFT was pushing Win 10 so hard on people -- but that's a whole 'nother issue.

I'm also one who was browsing through the original IBM PC BIOS assembly code listings in their manual back in the day, trying to understand how I was supposed to program some hardware. In that case, it wasn't because I wanted to, it was because I HAD to. It was my job. So tinkering with Linux is not a big deal to me -- if it really was a 'struggle', I wouldn't. Pedal steel is more of a struggle to me than the computer stuff.

The XP laptop, the one I'm using to type this, will be 11 years old this summer! Still used every day, thanks to Linux Mint.

Randy Schneider wrote:Well, I'm just one who doesn't see the need to buy a new machine when the one I have is still working fine.

I hear that, and I agree...to a point. If all one needs is browsing and email, enough's enough. My PCs have always been "working fine", but in terms of overall system performance, I can't ignore opportunities to upgrade - my applications place high demands on my system, and there's never enough performance. I'll upgrade at every opportunity.

I became rather suspicious as to why MSFT was pushing Win 10 so hard on people -- but that's a whole 'nother issue.

Yep - Win8 was not well received. It's understandable that they wanted to get something more palatable out there. I don't think there's anything more sinister than that to it. And who's going to argue with the price? Is "free" to much to pay? Not for me.

At the end of the day, I don't have the animosity toward MS that a lot of the "alternative OS" - (read "Linux") types do, apparently. It's just not a big deal to me - they don't force me into anything. Trying to stretch old, obsolete OSes into oblivion doesn't appeal as a worthwhile expenditure of my time, in addition to the fact that Windows just works. I have no need for anything else.

I'm also one who was browsing through the original IBM PC BIOS assembly code listings in their manual back in the day, trying to understand how I was supposed to program some hardware. In that case, it wasn't because I wanted to, it was because I HAD to. It was my job. So tinkering with Linux is not a big deal to me -- if it really was a 'struggle', I wouldn't. Pedal steel is more of a struggle to me than the computer stuff.

The XP laptop, the one I'm using to type this, will be 11 years old this summer! Still used every day, thanks to Linux Mint.

Well, all I can say, Randy, is you're a real trooper. It's been a long time since you (and I, it seems both of us are of similar vintage) were doing the "DOS" thing, trying to find available IRQs to get hardware installed, etc, etc....but those days are long gone. And mainstream OSes are much more user-friendly now. I just don't see a need to keep flogging a dead horse.

Dave Potter wrote:And mainstream OSes are much more user-friendly now. I just don't see a need to keep flogging a dead horse.

See, this is the part that some people don't get -- Linux is very much a living, breathing OS, that is far from 'dead' and is still evolving right alongside the others. It is quite user-friendly, and has multiple desktops to pick from instead of just one. It boots in a quarter of the time Windows does. It is free. It works, and it works quite well.

It's not like Linux is stuck back in the DOS or OS/2 days. Linux users are running Firefox, Thunderbird, Open Office, VLC media player, etc., just like the Windows users. I use Transcribe software to do a lot of my pedal steel song learning. I just run the Linux version instead of the Windows version. And no, I'm not looking for available IRQs...those really aren't good memories, are they?!?

My Linux environment looks an awful lot like my Windows environment. I'm running very up-to-date software (OS just released last year), just on old hardware that Windows would not support. Not sure why folks don't get that. I guess they've just never seen it.

I might add you will need a DVD to put most Linux ISO's onto. A CD won't hold them. But they still will be bootable.

This page is one of the best for putting a Linix ISO onto a USB stick and making it bootable...

https://www.pendrivelinux.com/

Microsoft users tend to say "If I started using Linux, I would have to learn how to do things all over again", never realizing that is exactly what they do with each new version of windows. Change for the sake of change? Linux does tend to be more secure, because most of the nefarious type are aiming at windows. Also most Linux distributions aren't set up to be Administrator by default, like windows is. Macs are based on Freebsd with a lot of proprietary code for the Graphic interface mostly, and tend to follow the Unix line security wise.

My IT son-in-law tells me the infrastructure in Windows 10 was need for the coming of subscription based services. In other words. We will pay the initial price of the software, and than pay a yearly fee to continue to use it. I believe they have already started that with MS Office, but I could be wrong.

Chuck