The Steel Guitar Forum

I had a previous thread about black "goop" oozing out the top of the changer fingers. I took the advice of several on the other thread of trying to clean the changer by "dousing" it with solvent and letting it run through. That only stopped it for a short period and it started again. So the only real way to do it is to remove the changers and clean all the fingers and axles. I've done it a couple of times with PP Emmons but the all pull changers are different.

I'm going to call Paul (Sr) about this but thought I'd run it by here in case someone has already done it. A cursory look and it appears the necks may have to be removed to get at all the mounting screws?

I have a rodding chart, notes on which strings have helper springs, pictures, etc.

Its a late 81 Franklin (that I bought new) so probably due for a "real" changer cleaning.

Yup - I disassembled my 1980 Franklin several years back to clean it up. I lucked into it when I first started playing, but the changes were sticking to the point I used other guitars until I learned enough (from working on a few other guitars) to take on the Franklin. It was very gunked up.

On mine, I could see no way to get to the changers without removing the necks. I had to remove the fretboards to take the necks off - there were several screws to remove up and down the necks. The fretboards on mine were really, really stuck on there hard. The double-stick tape was very thick and unbelievably sticky. I tried everything on earth to try to get the fretboards up without creasing them. Mostly succeeded - a couple of small creases - using a long spatula near the nut to get the edges up and then slowly ran a guitar string underneath. But in the end, it wound up curling up heavily from the double stick tape, which is impossible to work with. Won't really hold the fretboards down perfectly any more with that curl, but won't come off. I would recommend calling Paul Sr. and get some new fretboards if possible. I'm sure he can also give you more guidance than I can on dealing with the changer and adjustments. I just labeled everything, took a bunch of "before" pictures for a reference point, and dug into it.

Mike Sweeney and I went over to Paul Sr.'s place a year or so after I went over the guitar. Paul made a few adjustments and I got some new fretboards. The new ones have different double-stick tape and shouldn't give so much trouble getting up.

I found dealing with the Franklin changer just a bit trickier than other all-pulls I've had apart, but not too bad. Kind of like working on an early Telecaster - it looked like a lot of hand-machining, everything fit very precisely and I had to use some care getting it all back together. But in the end, it came out fine.

I took the guitar completely apart and cleaned everything. I did not do a fine "shiny-and-gleaming" polish-and-buff of all the undercarriage parts, but I did clean every single piece with carb cleaner and PB Blaster (this stuff is foul, mandatory to do it outside) that really got all the gunk off. I prefer the more flat look to go with the flat-black mica and early block-letter logo on this particular guitar.

Thanks, Dave. I see screws underneath for the neck, don't think mine has screws on top (Mr Franklin replaced the fretboards with the new style about 10 years ago). I don't recall seeing any top screws when the old fretboards were removed - he may have changed the design.

You are right on the craftsmanship and how things were made and put together. Much different than any other changer I've looked at.

Deleted - Duplicate

Any other comments?
It will probably be a month before I'll have free time to do it. Fortunately I can use my wife's GFI S-10 if needed for my weekly gigs while the Franklin is "in pieces". I have a medium size ultrasonic cleaner I'm going to try cleaning the parts with that rather than the carb cleaner I've used in the past on my Emmons.

Please make sure you post pics!!

Jack,

As discussed, the neck has to come off. If the neck mounting screws' are accessed from under the fretboard that will have to come off. If it's mounting screws enter from the underside of the cab' you don't have to remove the fretboard, obviously. Some of these underside-entry screws may be obscured by knee lever hardware so those parts will also have to come off.

If your Franklin's changer axle supports have blind axle holes you'll have to remove the changer supports. If they have through-holes, then you may be able to slide the axle to one or the other side enough to allow you to slide the changer fingers/scissors off one by one.

Obviously all the pull rods will have to be removed from the changer, and the return springs, and the raise helper springs. Those last are the trickiest part of the job upon reassembly.

Be sure to map out everything, and expecially to take not of how much lateral play/clearance there is in the asembly of fingers and spacers, and try to get that same clearance upon putting thigs back together.

I'm not sure what the best to lubricate the changer is; the last time I did it I used a combination of Tri-Flow and non-detergent 30 weight motor oil. That changer is working very well.

Rob

Rob, I've disassembled (and successfully reassembled) other changers. Just looking for specifics on the Franklin.

Jack, check your messages.....Rob

I talked to Mr Franklin this morning. He confirmed the fret boards must come off (I ordered 2 new ones) to remove the neck. I'm only planning on doing the E9th neck but may also do the C6th depending on how it goes. Other than that his advice was "be careful" and "take your time" and call him if I run into any problems. I have a rodding chart and will mark all the rods with where they go (just in case). I'll take pictures which should help.

It looks like the end plate will also have to be removed to access a screw on that holds a plate that is across the bottom of the changer.

I'll post pictures as requested. It will probably be a month before I tackle it.

... Other than that his advice was "be careful" and "take your time" and call him if I run into any problems.

I think that's the best advice you can get. It took me the better part of a week, elapsed time, to do both necks. But I really went in pretty blind, having taken apart and cleaned up several simpler changers in the prior several years. Periodically, I found it useful to stop and think about what I was doing before I proceeded. And I had to stay absolutely organized - parts carefully laid out and labeled - or risk messing something up. My whole music room was off-limits to everyone but me for that week.

I don't recall having to take the changer endplate off mine, but YMMV - mine's a year earlier than yours.

Looks like a mounting screw underneath the mounting "foot" for the end plate. Don't see any way of reaching that screw, if it has to come off without removing the end plate. I'd rather not do that if not needed. I'll see when I get into it.

Here is a picture and arrows pointing to the plate and screws.



Mine is a late 81, but probably the same as earlier models. He did change slightly later when he went to a neck that "wraps around" (covers the end of the changer). And made the standard height 1" taller. But that's about the only thing I see that is different.

That plate is the changer stop bar, against which the scissors are pulled by the strings and return springs when in the neutral position. It is not necessary to remove it in order to remove the changer scissors.

OK. That's one more thing that doesn't have to be removed.

Glenn wanted pictures.

I took the "plunge" today. Here are some pictures as I disassembled it. I'm surprised some of the fingers worked so well as they were tight on the axle. The 9th string finger wouldn't hardly move, but it lowered OK. If I get everything back successfully on the E9th neck I'll tackle the C6th. I have everything marked and charted so I should be able to get it rodded correctly.

Neck


Changer Top


Changer before removal


Changer Removed


Parts

That changer looks to be exactly like an MSA huh Jack...

Could be, Mike. However, I've never seen an MSA in pieces so I can't say. Paul (Jr) played an MSA at one time....

I thought it would be more Sho-Buddish since Paul worked for Sho-Bud.

I tried an ultrasonic cleaner (a Harbor Freight model) and either the degreaser solution or the ultrasonic cleaner or just too much crud on the parts but it didn't work. So its back to how I've cleaned changers before - carburetor cleaner.

Jack Stoner wrote:I tried an ultrasonic cleaner (a Harbor Freight model) and either the de-greaser solution or the ultrasonic cleaner or just too much crud on the parts but it didn't work. So its back to how I've cleaned changers before - carburetor cleaner.

Hi Jack,

Well I'm not sure about your ultrasonic cleaner. There are just some things a Harbor Freight tool is not so good at.

For what its worth this is the system I use and it works like a charm. I think Billy Knowles just ordered up the same rig. Also, I run the heat full blast for super dirty parts and run for an hour or more.

Here is the solution I have been using but there are many
http://timesavers.com/i-9500943-histori ... -pint.html

And here is my unit itself (15L)
https://jet.com/product/detail/a480d4b1 ... 4ab34ed2d1

Mike Scaggs wrote:That changer looks to be exactly like an MSA huh Jack...

The pivot point looks higher

Lane Gray wrote:

Mike Scaggs wrote:That changer looks to be exactly like an MSA huh Jack...

The pivot point looks higher

Yeah you're right but man it looks very close huh...

As I'll only use it one time, the price of the commercial ultrasonic cleaner is too much for me. The "degreaser" I got at Harbor Freight is also diluted with water for use (20 to 1 for degreasing metal parts).

I was going to get some carburetor cleaner, but I ran across some Naptha so I'm going to give that a shot by hand not the ultrasonic cleaner (although that is an idea).

Jack Stoner wrote:As I'll only use it one time, the price of the commercial ultrasonic cleaner is too much for me. The "degreaser" I got at Harbor Freight is also diluted with water for use (20 to 1 for degreasing metal parts).

I was going to get some carburetor cleaner, but I ran across some Naptha so I'm going to give that a shot by hand not the ultrasonic cleaner (although that is an idea).

Someone told me to try Simple Green in my Ultrasonic too but I haven't yet. Sounds like it would work good

The Naptha worked but I had to let the parts soak for an hour and then still clean them off with a small wire brush (about the size of a toothbrush).

The changer is together and reinstalled. The lower springs (screw adjustable springs) and helper springs are installed. Strings 10, 9, 8, 7 are rodded. Took a break and will finish up the rodding this afternoon. I still have to buff (polish) out the scratches in the neck before I can reinstall it. I have a new fretboard.

What is all that brownish/blackish stuff on the changer?

I know you were trying to remove it; but, what is it?