The Steel Guitar Forum

This is my first post on the forum and thanks to all for such a repository of information and experience. I've done some searching through previous posts prior to asking; not to beat a dead horse and all....

I am a beginner to PSG and ready to commit to a guitar. I've played some C6 lap steel but long for the sound of the PSG and the ability to make it sing and cry.

While I enjoy classic country and look forward to learning it, I hope to use the PSG in different genres of music many modern and not traditionally associated with the PSG. This brings me to my primary question and please try to see it from the perspective of someone who never aspires to play in a country or gospel band. If you wanted to learn PSG in my situation, would you start with say a E9 S10 and learn the classics and grow into other keys and music you were interested in later or, start with maybe a S12 universal and while learning the classics and method, focus on the music that you wish to play from the beginning?

I appreciate your experience and guidance and thank you in advance.

You will have to crawl before you can walk!!!! Start out with some slow classics. 3 chord tunes learning to use pedals. Also knee levers that lower "E"s and raise "E"s. S 10, 3+4. E9th

Some of us have been playing most of our lives. When I sit down to play I find some new little thing every time I play. It's been a ride down a long road but sure has been a lot of fun!! Been half way around the world and every year brings me to something new and someone new...

Whilst knowing nothing about C6 and 12 string Universal tuning, I do know that E9 lends itself very easily to country/3 chord tunes, with loads of cliche licks. I should know, my whole repertoire consists mostly of those licks

So, if you want to keep out of the way of country, don't get E9 (unless you're very disciplined and can avoid the 3 chord traps), I think (for what it's worth) maybe a 12 string universal would be a better option.

richard burton wrote:if you want to keep out of the way of country, don't get E9

You can play anything on E9, even most of C6. It contains a complete range of chords and is certainly not to be avoided. (Mike Perlowin has dubbed it the "Mozart neck" for that reason.)

Instruction books use a lot of country songs, but the technique you learn is applicable generally. I happen to be a convert to the universal, and I am working my way through traditional E9 and C6 material quite happily, and also working out some stuff on my own, so it's definitely one way to go.

I would start simple from a comprehensive musical place rather than the standard rote method that most steel instruction involves. If you are not interested in standard country then don't spend time on it a first. You may develop an interest in it down the road or you may not.

There is plenty to do without learning standard licks. Scale forms , intervalic movement with the pedals and most importantly bar handling and right hand control.

With that i highly suggest starting with a basic E9 pedalsteel or C6 lap steel to start. Add the layers of complexity later down the road as your musical needs develop. There is no reason to only play country music on an E9 . It has all 12 notes and everything in between along with an elegant system of pedal movement.

Shoot me a note and we can get together over skype and I'll show you what I'm talking about. I have made my living as a steel player primarily by being able to find ways to contribute to whatever sort of music is being played without playing anything that signifies country music.

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I appreciate your experiences.

If you have a grasp of the basic theory of western/European harmonies/chord theory, the modern E9th neck is actually pretty amazing and flexible.
The C6th neck is a bit less intuitive for most of us.
Our own Mike Perlowin (look him up on YouTube) calls E9th "the Mozart tuning.

My first suggestion would be get yourself a copy of MEL BAY Steel guitar Chords for E9th neck. Barnes and Knoble has it for less than 5 dollars + shipping. To me it is a must.

It will allow you to find all the chords, And how to get them.(what lever and/or pedal to use, the fret and strings to pick). Once you understand the lay out of the E9 neck chords you can adapt them for use in the music you choose. Good Luck in this adventure and Happy Steelin.

Isn't the Patricia Warnock chord chart file out there?

Aaron Joe Wright would be a good example of a steel player ( for Charlie Pride ) that played classic country tunes .Although is definitely not held back in playing other genres of music look him up on youtube he has the gift for Southern rock and other music as well.

IMO he knows every note on his fret board and where the changes he can make with each of his pedals & knees .

He almost never looks down at the fretboard...
If nothing else it would be entertaing just to watch a few of his youtube videos .

Good Luck in your endeavors

He is a real character!!! and a hell of a picker....

...would you start with say a E9 S10 and learn the classics and grow into other keys and music you were interested in later or, start with maybe a S12 universal and while learning the classics and method, focus on the music that you wish to play from the beginning?

You know Aaron, I don't think it is a matter of either/or . Different approaches will appeal to different people, and really, you are the only one that really knows what will work for you. So just remember that any recommendations you get are flavoured with each person's individual experience which is not likely the same as yours. Whichever route you go, well, you really cannot go wrong. Even if you find you start off down the "wrong" path, learning transference theory tells us your brain is going to use what you learn as a foundation. So my advice, for what it is worth...go with what feels right.

start with maybe a S12 universal and while learning the classics and method, focus on the music that you wish to play from the beginning?

I was in the same boat.

And I never could understand E9 - I tried for a long time but it made absolutely no sense in the context of non-country - to me at least.

A universal might have made sense but I chose to go in a different direction (an 8-string Fender in a B6 copedent,and with all tube amplifiers). The guitar made basic sense in a matter of hours and I never looked back. I don't play any "normal" pedal steel, there are zero lesson materials - but I'm much happier.

Thanks Bill! I ordered a copy.

If it was me, I would start with a 12 string uni. Many are saying start easy on a single 10, E9 and not worry about a uni or double neck. Since a first steel can be very expensive for a lot of people, and trading up from an S-10 to anything else may be next to impossible for some. Therefore, I say go ahead and invest in an S-12. You can still learn all the basics like people are suggesting. Start slow. You don't have to use all the pedals at first. Bring them into the mix as you find a use for them.

I have a couple of questions for the original poster. Its been a while since your original question back in April. Did you get a guitar? Also What sort of music are you leaning toward? Blues? Rock? Jazz? Funk? Classical? Irish Ballads? Hip Hop ? Anything? Free Jazz? I think if you give a hint of where you are leaning that there may be tunings besides the E9th that may more suited to what you want to play. E9th will cover a lot, but there's also C6th will be better suited for jazz; or E7th style tunings that are really great for sacred steel and blues/rock. A lot will depend on what instrument you ended up with, and how easy it is to change the copedant. Try and play as quickly as you can the kind of music you want to hear, and the melodies that you have in your head, noodle around and try and make them come out of the instrument somehow, most of us are really our own inspiration with this contraption. We do need the theory, but a lot of that is for E9th and C6th tunings, so if you are inspired by other muses, than you'll have to build your own road, and the sooner you start trying to play what it is you want to hear, at least trying to, the better it will be for you personally. What kind of music would you like to do?

Aaron, I took up steel with no intention of playing country, Hawaiian or any of the other any other tradional uses of the instrument. That was about 10 years ago and I haven't really achieved what I imagined back then which was adding cello or vocal type steel lines to flamenco and middle-eastern music. At the time, that was the crowd I was running with. I go through a lot of phases, both in musical genres and in instruments. However, I can tell you that during my many "steel phases", I've dug deep into understanding the E9 tuning and it's a beautiful thing. When I was playing non-pedal more, I was constantly experimenting with tunings. I don't see any need to move to another pedal steel tuning for any future experiments. It's a fully capable system from my perspective.

Instead of starting with licks or repetoire, I approached the instrument by searching for triads but it wasn't until I started really exploring the two-note harmonized capabilities, both horizontal and vertical, that it all really started to click. If you have an iPad or iPhone, I heavily recommend downloading the FREE app, "Steel Sidekick". It allows you to see how the tunings work by activating the pedals and levers and watching the "fretboard" shift. It has C6 and E9 and you can change the copedents to your liking. You can also set it to display intervals (as opposed to note names). I use this a lot to study the tuning when I'm not actually near my instrument.

Also, this forum is probably the best musicians resource for any particular instrument out there. Back when I first joined, I would get a lot of responses that the steel should be pigeon-holed into certain genres. That it was a musical genre instead of an instrument. I don't see that as much now.

I have been playing for alost 3 months now and let me tell you what my.mentor told me:

"Don't get F16 syndrome. You are wanting to do barrel rolls and all kind of fancy maneuvers when you fly, but right now, you're in a cesna."

Translation; learn the basics first. I played reso guitar prior to PSG and it's a whole other monster to take IMHO. If it were me and I wanted to do what you are, I'd get a double neck. You will find much more istruction on the E9th to show you the ropes and proper technique, and you will then have the C6 neck to move to and fit things to your style.

THIS Is Why THE JEFFRAN style of teaching makes so much sense to me. You learn how and why you do certain thinga. It's not learn a lick and not be able to apply it elsewhere. I mean gow many musicians started playing gospel, for instance, and.that helped influence their current style??? ( Robert Randolph)

I agree with James mayer, the diad's open up so much...it did for me!

Thank you guys for all of your guidance and experiences.

I ended up with a D10 Emmons PP and have an Excel S10 incoming from Japan. The Emmons put my back out the first time I took out of the car. The Excel will be light to gig with and is extremely user friendly for changing copedents in the future. I don't play any other instrument so my learning curve is a little steeper then some. I'm a poor student of a great teacher, Mr. John McClung and am supplementing the core knowledge with courses that have been around longer than I have.

The E9 neck will be my focus for a few years and maybe the rest of my life. There is plenty of instructional material available and it's going to take me longer than the average bear to get solid on the basics. From there I'll branch out into what puts a smile on my face and continue to be inspired by what you all are doing.

Thank you again and please continue to keep this tread going. There will be others that will need this info and it's an easy place to direct them to.