| Author |
Topic: Direct Boxes |
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2017 10:20 am |
|
I need to replace the direct box I use to record steel guitar. Any recommendations?
The one I am replacing is an Art. It actually worked very well.
I usually do well with cheap but am willing to pay as much as I need to,
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
|
|
|
Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
|
Posted 21 Mar 2017 10:45 am
|
|
| Fractal Audio Axe FX or Kemper |
|
|
|
James Phillips
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2017 12:19 pm
|
|
I think the standard Guitar center DI would be a bump up from the Art. But if you can spend the money , buy a Radail Pro DI.
_________________
Visit my Studio: LimeStoneLabs at.. http://Facebook.com/LSlabs
"Let the Bridges We Burn Light the Way" |
|
|
|
Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
|
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 22 Mar 2017 6:01 am
|
|
Time out.
You did not say what you are using or how you have it connected.
All direct boxes are not created equally.
Some are meant for instrument levels only, connected between the guitar and amp.
Some are meant to be connected between the amp output and speaker, sending a signal to the PA, eliminating the need for a microphone.
"Fractal Audio Axe FX or Kemper"
This may be a way to do it. An extremely EXPENSIVE way to do it. |
|
|
|
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
Posted 22 Mar 2017 3:01 pm
|
|
| ajm wrote: |
Time out.
You did not say what you are using or how you have it connected.
All direct boxes are not created equally.
Some are meant for instrument levels only, connected between the guitar and amp.
Some are meant to be connected between the amp output and speaker, sending a signal to the PA, eliminating the need for a microphone.
"Fractal Audio Axe FX or Kemper"
This may be a way to do it. An extremely EXPENSIVE way to do it. |
All I use it for is recording in a home studio. It goes in the line in on a usb recording device and sometimes into a preamp first. This is not commercial recording or anything close. I have been using an ART, the cheapest model they make and it works o.k. for my purposes. It is so old I can't remember when I got it. For some reason it stopped working and I am not ambitious enough to try and find out why. I am definitely not a gear snob.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 23 Mar 2017 2:21 am
|
|
I got several inexpensive "passive" DI boxes that I use in my home recording studio. They all sound the same and don't seem to affect the tone of whatever I plug into it. One is a new ART DI box and it works OK and I've used it with my steel a couple of times.
I've got one active Behringer DI box but I've never found a use for an active DI box. It was purchased cheap at the old (now closed) Musician's Friend outlet they used to have in Kansas City. |
|
|
|
Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
|
Posted 23 Mar 2017 4:26 pm
|
|
James, As the previous posts indicate, there are a range of products that will do the job (and then some!).
If you change the description of what you are looking for from DI box to preamp, you may find a whole world of possibilities. A guitar preamp (with or without modeling) will take your guitar's signal and raise it to a level compatible with the input of your amp, pa, computer interface, or what have you. The Fractal AXE is top of the line modeling. There are several preamps designed specifically for pedal steel (Brad Sarno among others). There are a kazillion guitar preamps (I know, I'm exaggerating). Radial engineering has a number of what I consider excellent products of which I own several. You might want to take a look at their Radial JDX Direct Drive (199 at Sweetwater).
The acoustic piezo PZ Deluxe that I own is the quietest, most reliable device that I use every day.
I think you will be able to find a solution for your needs. All you have to do is define what your needs are.
Good hunting
Karlis |
|
|
|
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
Posted 23 Mar 2017 5:13 pm
|
|
| Karlis Abolins wrote: |
James, As the previous posts indicate, there are a range of products that will do the job (and then some!).
If you change the description of what you are looking for from DI box to preamp, you may find a whole world of possibilities. A guitar preamp (with or without modeling) will take your guitar's signal and raise it to a level compatible with the input of your amp, pa, computer interface, or what have you. The Fractal AXE is top of the line modeling. There are several preamps designed specifically for pedal steel (Brad Sarno among others). There are a kazillion guitar preamps (I know, I'm exaggerating). Radial engineering has a number of what I consider excellent products of which I own several. You might want to take a look at their Radial JDX Direct Drive (199 at Sweetwater).
The acoustic piezo PZ Deluxe that I own is the quietest, most reliable device that I use every day.
I think you will be able to find a solution for your needs. All you have to do is define what your needs are.
Good hunting
Karlis |
My steal guitar is never played through a live amp. The signal starts in the guitar, goes through a usb device to the hard disk. Anything else is hooked up between.
I may not even need a direct box. Lately I have been going into a pre amp (peavy vmc) on the way to the usb device and it sounds really good. If you've got something I need to know, I am listening. Everything I do is by trial and error because I have absolutely no technical knowledge.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 24 Mar 2017 3:30 am
|
|
A TRUE DI box takes the unmolested signal from a mic or instrument and sends it to an input somewhere be it a PA board or a mixing console. It's an In and an OUT. The In has a few options for connectors while the OUT is generally LO IMP running a MIC cable, but may also have a 1/4 out as well.
To me, the op is talking about PREAMPS , NOT DI boxes. Any quality preamp with both HI and LO outputs would serve the purpose. I would like to know what model ART he is using which would clarify the discussion.
Here are 3 different so called DI BOXES which each serve a different purpose. Each has both a 1/4 inch out and a LO IMP Out.
The Baggs Venue is a PREAMP and has excellent features for tone, gain, BOOST etc. I use this for both AC guitar and Dobro often, the BOOST is used for solo's and is worth the price of the unit all by itself. It has a tuner and an input level meter . No 48V Phantom power.
The Baggs Para DI is probably the industry standard for stage worthy DI Preamps. It does have 48V Phantom power if needed. No Boost.
The Behringer ADI 21 is a low budget take off of the Baggs products. Good tone control, LO IMP out , no phantom power. The foot switch is either ON or OFF, so you can set your basic tones with it OFF then if you need a squeak of level, turn it on. Or just set it up with the tones you like in the ON position. I bought it cheap at MF and it's in the parts box .
The BAGGS Venue is superior to each of the other two. I don't need 48V power so thats not a factor. What I wish it did have was an external foot switch for the BOOST function so I could keep the unit up off the floor to play with the knobs. Other than that, no complaints.
I believe what the OP is talking about is a preamp where the instrument is plugged it, tones and gains are set locally then the signal is sent to a PA bd or recording bd somewhere. For recording this is called DIRECT recording, NO AMP or live MIC hanging on an AMP. Very common. I personally have not recorded with a live mic in years other than vocals of course.
The lower photo is a rack of PREAMPS for direct recording, 2 different preamps which take the inputs from MICS or Instruments and go directly to the recorder. They are not DI boxes. They alternatively could be used at a gig, taking the outputs to a PA system, meaning NO AMP. The preamps don't know and don't care where the signal is going ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 1 Apr 2017 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Miles Lang
From:
Venturaloha
|
Posted 31 Mar 2017 11:24 am
|
|
| Baggs Para DI is "old reliable" for me |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2017 12:44 pm
|
|
This is a direct box that Peavey made some years ago.
It goes between the amp and the speaker. It allows you to hear what you're playing plus sends the same signal to a board or whatever.
 |
|
|
|
Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2017 4:46 pm
|
|
Determine whether you are now using an active or passive DI.
Model number, etc.
Then go from there
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 1 Apr 2017 7:09 am
|
|
To add to what Erv said (DI boxes between amp and speaker):
Palmer PDI-09
Hughes and Kettner Red Box (various versions) |
|
|
|
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
Posted 2 Apr 2017 4:10 am
|
|
It just occurred to me that I may be doing this all wrong. I have been using a direct box like this.
Steel-Direct Box-Audio Interface-Hard Drive.
I have also done this.
Steel-Direct Box-Audio Interface-Pre Amp-Hard Drive.
I don't ever play live or though an amp or speakers. The steel is for home studio only.
I have been using the direct box to make the steel sound more like it is going through an amp.
I have been using a passive Direct Box.
The pre-amp I have is really decent. Do I really need to use a direct box if I have a decent pre-amp?
The technical side of this is over my head. The only criteria I ever have is this. Does it sound better this way or that way? And, then on to the next thing.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 4:55 am
|
|
| James Quillian wrote: |
The pre-amp I have is really decent. Do I really need to use a direct box if I have a decent pre-amp?
|
WHAT exactly are you using, what preamp, what DI box etc...??
The question cannot be answered accurately until those details are revealed.
Brand names and model #'s answer the questions. Photos are even better.
Your asking a technical question , the minor details matter !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 5:24 am
|
|
| Tony Prior wrote: |
| James Quillian wrote: |
The pre-amp I have is really decent. Do I really need to use a direct box if I have a decent pre-amp?
|
WHAT exactly are you using, what preamp, what DI box etc...??
The question cannot be answered accurately until those details are revealed.
Brand names and model #'s answer the questions. Photos are even better.
Your asking a technical question , the minor details matter ! |
Direct Box: Art ZX (I understand this is about the cheapest direct box on the market. I am using it because I had it in a box of stuff. I don't even remember buying it.)
Pre Amps: Peavy VMP-2 and Golden Age Pre 73
I agree about the minor details but if the larger details are not resolved first, the minor ones won't help much.
If I could first get an idea of what should be between the guitar and the hard drive I think everything else would fall in place.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
|
|
|
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 9:45 am
|
|
That looks interesting. How do you think it would sound using it for recording instead of micing an amp.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 10:07 am
|
|
I don't know how it would do. They don't say what speaker emulation it does.
But I usually run "direct" when I record. I'm tempted to get one and see what it does. May be what you could use to(?) |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 10:35 am
|
|
| James Quillian wrote: |
[quote="James
Pre Amps: Peavy VMP-2 and Golden Age Pre 73
I agree about the minor details but if the larger details are not resolved first, the minor ones won't help much.
|
Minor details which are important !
With each of those preamps mentioned above you DO NOT NEED ANY DI Box, both preamps have a MIC and LINE IN. Plug your Steel into the LINE IN. These are the little details I am talking about. the output of your PREAMP, either one, goes to your PC interface feeding the software. NO DI BOX necessary, it's an extra item in the signal path which you do not need.
The LINE IN on all common brand preamps is there so we can plug our guitars directly into them. They are sometimes termed HI Z ( Hi Impedance)
Remember, the primary purpose of an IN/OUT DI BOX is to get your MIC or instrument signal , with a matching impedance, back to the PA system or Sound reinforcement board which can be 20, 30... 100 feet away... Some DI boxes, such as the Baggs Para DI, have a preamp on board so it is a double duty kinda thing.
Plug directly into the preamp LINE IN and go back to making beautiful music !
Steel > LINE IN of preamp > Interface > recorder
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 11:59 am
|
|
Tony, I can't thank you enough. There is no point in using a direct box if it won't improve the sound. I will stop worrying about it.
| Tony Prior wrote: |
| James Quillian wrote: |
[quote="James
Pre Amps: Peavy VMP-2 and Golden Age Pre 73
I agree about the minor details but if the larger details are not resolved first, the minor ones won't help much.
|
Minor details which are important !
With each of those preamps mentioned above you DO NOT NEED ANY DI Box, both preamps have a MIC and LINE IN. Plug your Steel into the LINE IN. These are the little details I am talking about. the output of your PREAMP, either one, goes to your PC interface feeding the software. NO DI BOX necessary, it's an extra item in the signal path which you do not need.
The LINE IN on all common brand preamps is there so we can plug our guitars directly into them. They are sometimes termed HI Z ( Hi Impedance)
Remember, the primary purpose of an IN/OUT DI BOX is to get your MIC or instrument signal , with a matching impedance, back to the PA system or Sound reinforcement board which can be 20, 30... 100 feet away... Some DI boxes, such as the Baggs Para DI, have a preamp on board so it is a double duty kinda thing.
Plug directly into the preamp LINE IN and go back to making beautiful music !
Steel > LINE IN of preamp > Interface > recorder |
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:53 pm
|
|
Regarding the DI Box that Jack Stoner posted: From the specs in the link, this device appears to be instrument level.
It does NOT appear to be the type that is placed between an amp and speaker. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 3 Apr 2017 3:40 pm
|
|
James, glad to help. In my photo's above, I , like many others, are doing the exact same thing as you. When I record Steel, I use NO amp,no live mic, I plug directly into one of my preamps, the LINE IN input.
I didn't invent this process, I'm just a benefactor ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 4 Apr 2017 2:09 am
|
|
Most DI boxes are instrument level. The Peavey that was referenced is the only non instrument level I've seen. Look at the long list of DI boxes on a site such as Sweetwater Music and they are all instrument level.
https://www.sweetwater.com/c957--Direct_Boxes
I use a DI box on recording as I have an XLR interface panel on the back of my recording rack. Each of the 8 inputs on my MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid recording interface unit are connected via the XLR panel. The MOTU unit does not have any front panel inputs like many units all are on the rear panel of the unit. |
|
|
|
