The Steel Guitar Forum

The recent thread on Zane Beck's tuning was interesting, and it got me thinking and doodling out different possibilities.

I like the 6 and 9 aspect of it, which led me to the following.

Assume a E-G-A-B-D-E-G-A-B-D ten string tuning, and assume that you considering putting this tuning on a dormant C6 armrest, oops I mean neck.

So this tuning with no pedals is a E minor pentatonic scale or a G6 add 9 scale.

The overall goal is a good tuning for loud electric blues, think Stevie Ray Vaughan or something along those lines.

No pedals you are in good shape, the pentatonic is right there.

Some obvious notes via pedals/levers I would add would be A#, F# and C# for single note work.

Also a G-G# raise on a pedal, so that you can trill beween the major and minor third of E chord, that's a classic blues move.

For playing over the A7 of a blues in E, maybe drop the D to C#, making an Adom7 add 9 across the strings.

For playing over the B7 of a blues in E, I guess raise the Ds to D# and the Es to F# for a B dom 7 across the strings

Anyone have thoughts on how pedals might best be arranged for something like this, or has someone already developed this tuning and I can just go look the the fully thought out version?

Scott, I like your idea for soloing. However, chording might be a lot of hassle.

If you take a look at Junior Browns tuning on 8 string steel, it's really good for blues. Listen to "Guit-Steel Blues"

You could add a couple of lower strings to it for 10 string. The notes are (high to low) G, E, C, A, G, E, C, Bb... This is a very handy tuning for blues soloing and chording. For example. If your playing in E (4th fret) you have some good "major" soloing, but if you move up 3 frets to the 7th fret, you have wonderful access to the E pentatonic minor & blues scales.

Your C6 neck is almost tuned like that already!

If you like an open E tuning try E13th:

G#, E, C#, B, G#, E, D, B, G#, E (High to low)This would be nice on your pedal steel. The "D" string could be lowered to "C#" and you'd have a nice 6th tuning there too. In this situation you also have a good pentatonic minor up 3 frets.

I play this E13 (2nd thru the 7th strings) on my (6 string)1935 Dobro lap steel and play a ton of blues on it.

I really would consider some chords to strum instead of just the soloing notes.

Danny Bates

I think that the Sacred Steel guys have blues covered pretty well with their E7th tunings. They have the added benefit of strong rhythm chops on the low strings.

Consider this for a moment:<p align="center"> </p>Ignore K1 and K5, but think about the rhythmic possibilities on the low strings.

In real blues, you rarely need fast pentatonics on the low strings, but you do need to be able to slam chords (ala SRV). Imagine that P1 lowering the low B to A, and you really get into the primal chords.

If you want to play around with pentatonics without changing your back neck much, try adding a middle D string (remove the low C). Pentatonic tunings are cool, but you really do need a couple of power chords on the low strings to cop the groove, IMHO.

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)
Roland Handsonic

Re:Scott...You are certainly on the right track.Here are a couple of things to think about:First,it seems that most blues singers (but certainly not all) seem to favor G or A for many of their songs.I combine this with the fact that I love playing around in the 5th,7th,& 9th frett range on my neck,
especiallly for a starting point.You have plenty room to stretch out from there. Also,because I currently play a lot of blues,I have come to favor a D6th,with or without pedals. With D6th you still have plenty of open string work available in the common blues keys (such as G and A)plus your basic pentatonics in the 5th,7th,& 9th frett positions,with plenty of room for long slides. I currently use a D6th with the interval pattern set up like C6th. Also, I have a pedal that gives me the added Maj9 for speed,but its really not too big a deal since you never have to move your bar more than two fretts to complete a full pentatonic scale,anyway. If this is of any interest, I can be more specific. Steel Slidin'.....W.C.

Right on, Bobby Lee! I would also like to quote a b0b comment from a month or two ago. b0b said, "You can play blues on most any common steel guitar tuning." (may not be verbatim,but close) Once again,b0b is right,because most tunings incorporate 6ths,7ths,& 9ths,individually or in combinations. If I wasn't so worried about getting my thumb pick hung between those two unison E strings, I'd be using the "Sacred Steel" tuning (tuned to D,of course)right
now!....W.C.

My first pedal steel tuning was D pentatonic: click here. Also, the back neck of my Williams is D pentatonic, except for the 10th string.

On the E9th, I shift into "pentatonic mode" by lowering my E's to D# and lowering strings 2 and 9 to C#. I play this position one fret above the V fret of the key I'm in (the 8th fret in E, for example). A lot of my blues solos are centered on this position.

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)
Roland Handsonic

Thanks for all the ideas.

Thanks Bobby Lee, for sharing your setups and ideas! I find it comforting to know that others have been exploring the same territory I have. When I checked out your Williams setup/w comments, I had to chuckle. Let me explain why...About two weeks ago,a steel player/friend & I got together to swap licks and ideas. I played a few things on my back neck that he liked,so he asked how my back neck was tuned. I replied that it was pretty much a standard C6th setup,just tuned up a whole tone w/lighter gauged strings. He got on my guitar and tried to play the back neck like his C6th but was totally lost! It was then that I realized that I had made a little change here and a little change there,until I had wound up with something quite a bit distant from the "standard" setup. Now,Bobby,look again at your Williams back neck setup with the 9 on the 7th string,and a 6 on the 9th string. Now read your comment "The back neck is a fairly standard C6th,raised a step...". I am not trying to ridicule you here. This is only amusing to me because I did the same thing. Keep up the good work;I really appreciate your comments and the work you put into the "Forum".
W.C.

Well, it started out as a standard C6th.

Actually, I didn't invent that "middle 9th tone" idea. A movement to add a middle D to the C6th tuning has been gaining steam over the past few years. I think people really started taking notice when Buddy Emmons added it to his experimental S-12 tuning. Forum members Dan Tyack and Bob Hoffnar both use the middle D.

I did some experimenting with my idea of a pentatonic tuning and came up with the following concept. It’s a 6th tuning but with a different pedal arrangement than the typical C6. This is a first draft, the lower 3 strings might be different to suit rhythym playing.

<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>

__________L1__P1____P2___P3____P4___P5____
1__G_____+G#_____________+A_______________
2__E _________+F#______________+F__________
3__D__________+E___________________________
4__B_________________+C_____________+C#___
5__G_____+G#_____________+A_______________
6__E__________+F#______________+F_________
7__D__________+E___________________________
8__B___????????????_____
9__G___????????????_________
10_E___????????????_________

</pre></font>

I am more accomplished as a 6 string guitarist than a steeler (I am trying to even that up), so I got out the Strat and plotted the pentatonic, thirds, and sixths for an A blues scale.

The base pentatonic scale I like is A-C-D-E-G, with C# optional. I also use Eb, F#, C# and G# over certain places in a 12 bar blues for flavor. For instance, G#, D, bend D to E played over the V7 (E7 in this case) is a classic move.

Key bends include G to A, A to B, D to E, I wanted to get those on pedals.

The thirds/sixths for an A blues I like to use are from the G Major scale, ie E-G, F#-A, G-B, A-C, B-D, C-E, D-F#.

For thirds/sixths the pedals above would be pushed in pairs to traverse the thirds.

For example,
2nd fret, strings 2 and 5, press P3 and P4 to bend A-F# to B-D
0 fret, string 4 and 5, press P2 and P3 to bend G-B to A-C
7th fret, string 4 and 7, press P1 and P2 to bend A-F# to B-G

Strings 2,4,5 above would correspond to strings 1,2,3 on a 6 string guitar standard tuning.

The frets you would play on steel you correspond to 6 string guitar, ie for A your basic positions would be fret 0 and fret 5.

The goal is sound like a screaming lap steel with impossibly fast bar slants, via the pedals.

Any thoughts on my latest brainstorm?
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 30 September 2002 at 01:24 PM.]</p></FONT>

Why no lowers? All of your pedals are raises. Is that deliberate?

My back neck is tuned to A minor pentatonic, but my front neck is tuned to E pentacostal.

Seriously, my back neck is a C6th with added 9th in the middle (D). See previous threads on this. On my front tuning I just recieved my old Franklin guitar from Paul Sr., and it not only looks like new, it has a brand new tuning on it that is amazing. I am going to redo my other Franklin in a similar way. It is a cross between a Sacred Steel E tuning and the E9th. I believe that you can do pretty much anything on this that you can do on the E9th, but the rhythm capabilities of this tuning are phenominal. I feel like going out and getting a job with AC/DC......
Here's a link to my copedent:
http://tyack.com/Technical%20stuff.htm

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www.tyack.com

By the way, I got the idea for this tuning from b0b, it was a brilliant idea.

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www.tyack.com

On the lack of lowers, that was more or less intentional, since there are no lowers on 6 string, and my thought is to make the sound more 6 string like.

Lowers would probably help with chords though.

As a follow up to the previous discussion, I have put the following G6 tuning on the back neck. I have been playing it about a week, and I like it a lot. Blues licks are very easy, and some one who is familiar with 6 string guitar pentatonics will connect with this tuning very quickly, and they are even on the same fret. For example, use fret 0, 5, 12 for a blues in A.
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
_________LKR___RKL___P1____P2____P3____P4_____P5____
1__G_________________________________________________
2__E ________________________+F________________+F#___
3__D___________________________________________+E____
4__B_________________+C#_________________+C___________
5__G____+G#___-F#_________________+A__________________
6__E________________________+F___________+F#__________
7__D_________________-C#_______________________+E____
8__B________________­_____________________+C_________
9__G____+G#___-F#_________________+A_________________
10_E________________________+F____+D_________________
</pre></font>
Here is the analogous setup in C6 for reference, although it probably couldn't be physically strung up with the high A and C shown.
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
_________LKR___RKL___P1____P2____P3____P4_____P5______
1__C__________________________________________________
2__A ________________________+Bb_________________+B____
3__G_____________________________________________+A____
4__E_________________+F#_________________+F____________
5__C____+C#___-B__________________+D__________________
6__A________________________+Bb__________+B____________
7__G_________________-F#_________________________+A____
9__C____+C#___-B___________________+D__________________
10_A________________________+Bb____+G__________________
</pre></font>
OK, referring to the G6 setup I actually installed:

There are lots of dom7 chords available. For instance, at fret zero you have E7 (LKR), A7 (P1 + P3), G7 (P2), and a huge D7 (P3 + P4).

Minors chords are available at fret zero and also "up 2 frets" and "back 2 frets".

There is a VIIdim on string 4,5,6 at fret zero.

At zero fret, have G, D, A and E power chord grips on the lower strings.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 27 November 2002 at 01:51 PM.]</p></FONT>

SCOTT, I like people who listen to all the reasons why it can't work,then go ahead and make it work anyway. Keep up the good work!
~~W.C.~~

Scott,

The standard E9th tuning is good for playing the pentatonic scale. With string 2 lowered to D and your G$ strings raised to A, at the 4th fret the notes sre:
E G A B +D E A +D -G B

With just 1 pedal and 3 or 4 knee levers you can play all inversions (pockets) of the Major or Minor Pentatonic Scale. Some of the blue notes can be added also, but the bar is probably better for playing those chromatic nuances.

This thread is a couple of years old but it is new to me. I was experimenting with an E minor 7th tuning and decided to see if anyone has gone there.
Scott,
Are you still using this tuning or a variation? What do you like about it and what have you changed?

Karlis

Here is current G6 setup, still pretty much the same.

The G-G# lever is the single most important lever, use the B-Bb a lot also.

Its a little hard to tell from just looking at the chart, but it is very easy to play smooth sounding blues scales and licks on this tuning.

I would recommend a meantone tuning system for this copedant also.


<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
_______________LKL1_______LKR________P5_____P6_____P7____P8______P9______RKL______________
1__G__.012________________________________________________________________________________
2__E __.014____________________________________+F_________________________________________
3__D__.016_____________________________-C#__________________________+E_______+D#_______
4__B__.018______-Bb__________________________________________+C__________________________
5__G__.024_________________+G#_______________________+A_________________________________
6__E__.030_____________________________________+F________________________________________
7__D__.034_____________________________-C#__________________________+E_________________
8__B__.038______-Bb__________________________________________+C_________________________
9__G__.048_________________+G#_______________________+A________________________________
10_E__.056________________________________________________________________________________
</pre></font><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 10 March 2005 at 09:37 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 10 March 2005 at 09:38 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 10 March 2005 at 09:43 AM.]</p></FONT>