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Topic: old steels really a good investment or not |
Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 12:41 pm |
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Just wondering what you think.is it wise to buy a vintage steel, having it restored ect. cost big dollars.mabe its better just to buy new and be happy, what you think
farris |
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 1:03 pm
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| Hey Farris ! I don't think any musical instrument is a good investment if you are thinking only in terms of how much you could sell it for. I'm happy if I can sell a guitar for what I bought it for. If I could afford it, I would get one of those Marrs Sho Buds. They definitely have that vintage mystique with modern mechanics. But would I be able to sell it for what I payed? I don't think so. |
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Jennings Ward
From:
Edgewater, Florida, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 1:23 pm
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HEY FERRIS, I HAVE A "QUAD 8 " ON THE WAY, EARLY 50'S VINTAGE. WHAT YOU THINK IT'S RESALE VALYE WOULD BE??? AFTER RESTORED? SAYS IT NEEDS SOME WORK....WHAT TUNINGS SHOULD I USE ON IT? GOT ANY SUGGESTIONS?? TELL ME WHAT YOU THINMK......JENNINGS... I WANT TO MAKE A LOT OF NOISE.,
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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 1:40 pm
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| Not at all. Their value doesn't even keep pace with inflation. |
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 4:25 pm
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Thanks to all for your response,Bobby i agree 100% just not keeping up with the times huh.Jennings how the world you gonna reach accross that thing??value i don't have a clue man.sounds like you found a good un my friend. tuneings,out of my leage man, don't have a clue. man you got lots of strings to buy there tho!!! good luck with it my friend. bet you can make it talk>
farris |
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C. Brattain
From:
Balch Springs, Texas, usa
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 5:21 pm
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| If you enjoy playing them I thank that they are a great investment. Chuck |
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Duncan Hodge
From:
DeLand, FL USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 6:45 pm
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I have two "old" steels, a 1969 ZB D-10 and a 1971 Speedy West Marlen. The only problem is that I haven't figured out how to play both of them at the same time. I didn't buy them for an investment. I bought them hoping that they would sound like the sound I heard in my head. They both did. Both can be a struggle to play, and I have to work for the notes I want, but when I hit it right, it's all worth it. I owned a more modern steel, that now has a reportedly happy owner in France, that was very easy to play, but at times I felt like I was typing rather than playing an instrument. It was that easy to play. I think I'll stay with the old, heavy wood body "dinosaur". If I ever get as good as Paul, Buddy, Lloyd, Jimmy, or take your pick and everybody wants me to play on their records, maybe then I'll need a newer one. For now, I don't care if they go up in value, or not.
That's just my input from a happy camper with an "old" steel...or two.
Duncan |
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Jennings Ward
From:
Edgewater, Florida, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 7:03 pm
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DUNCAN, ONE OF MY MANY HERO STEEL PLAYERS WAS LEON MC ALIUF, THE GUY THAT PLAYED WITH BOB WILL SO LONG...THE LAST TIME I SAW HIM, HW WAS PLAYING A FENDER QUAD EIGHT..HE COULD GET A BEAUTIFULL SOUND OUT OF THAT THING.. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT TUNINGS HE USED? PLEASE, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU DO, AND I WILL FOREVER BE IN DEBT TO YOU. I HAVE A FENDER SUPER REVERB TO GO WITH THIS 4 X 8 . SHOULD GET A PRETTY GOOD TONE, I HOPE. THANKS FELLAS ,,,, JENNINGS......
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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +
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Duncan Hodge
From:
DeLand, FL USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 7:42 pm
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Jennings,
We need to go to the next Jam out at Lake Pan in March. I'll pick you up if you want to go. You've been missing from there for too long. If you aren't feeling well at the time I could put you in the back of the pickup. If it's raining, I could wrap you in a tarp. Please excuse the poor attempt at humor. I really think we could have some fun.
Duncan[This message was edited by Duncan Hodge on 23 February 2005 at 07:44 PM.] |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 8:35 pm
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After sinking about 2 grand in my old Sho~Bud, I can't think of a 6000$ guitar that could touch it. Not for what I want out of a guitar: Good sound,steady, consistent changes and class.
A couple of the guys that just played it in Nashville seemed to think so too. Tommy White, Herb Steiner, Bruce Bouten and a couple others seem to think the same way, as they have similar orders in, though of course, I don't speak for them.
After I get done replacing a couple worn out fingers and swivels on my PIII it'll be good for another 26 years of steady hard gigging.
Real Estate is a good money return investment.
Steel guitars and harleys aren't.
Meth labs return the highest, they tell me.
I bought it to make money playing it. I made enough money last year playing it's sister to pay for this one, and then some.
My estate might sell it, but I won't care how much they make on it.
EJL
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Jon James
From:
Durham, NC, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 8:50 pm
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As far as investments are concerned, I'd have to say the ultimate junk bond is the Sho-Bud Maverick. I suppose some people did pretty well selling theirs on Ebay for over $700. Considering they probably payed $350 or so for it. That's a sweet 200% return on your money.
Jon |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 9:40 pm
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| It depends on what vintage steel, what shape its in, and how or if it was restored. Just becauase its vintage doesn't necesarrily make it desireable. Custom shop restored vintage guitars are on the top of my list. Outside of a ZUM I don't think that any modern guitar touches them for sound. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 23 February 2005 at 09:42 PM.] |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 9:21 am
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What Kevin said. Yes!
Most steels don't go up in value, they get out dated and have no heritage, that is they have no track record of ever doing anything that any other steel couldn't have done. If the guitar has no outstanding abilities, it will never be a good investment.
Some guitars have been built that can't seem to be duplicated today, like some violins. These guitars are now fetching thousands of dollars more than they cost new. And are well worth the price, but only to the most discriminating players that care to own the very best.
I offered the owner of the Bud Isaacs Double neck Bigsby, $35.000.00 for his guitar, he didn't sell it to me. And says he won't sell to anyone. This Bigsby only cost $550.00 new in 1950. Would this have been a good investment?
What about the Sho-Bud Super Pro II guitars? Sho-Buds best and only seven were ever built. All went to name players. What about the--------> Well, you see what I mean.
All steels seem to hold there value pretty well, even the "off brands", and some home made guitars. When I started my store in 1982, I could buy used Emmons P-P guitars for $500.00, and Sho-Bud Pros for $350.00.
Seems as though steels could be a good hedge against inflation. Just buy the right one. Or two. (Or more)
bobbe |
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Lyle Clary
From:
Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 10:06 am
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| To everyone. When you double your money on your investment that is a 100 percent profit. Math 101 class over. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 10:44 am
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Most of the classics in good shape are probably a fairly safe investment IF demand stays high in the coming years.Steels will never get the return of vintage electric or acoustic guitars. Fender and Gibson made some pretty awful stuff in the 70's, but demand is VERY high for ANY old guitar and prices for really mediocre stuff is skyrocketing.
Much of the top condition/desirable guitars from the 40's/50'6 60's are spoken for,so now 70's and 80's pieces are in demand. I think the extent of this demand is MUCH more limited for steels,and this is why you can still buy a sweet old PP or nice Bud for a decent price.. actually cheaper than a new steel in most cases.. I think many vintage pedal steels are a bargain. MANY[not all}
steel guitarists prefer modern hi tech lightweight pedal steel guitars and this WILL keep vintage pedal steels reasonable IMHO and not all that great an investment... bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 24 February 2005 at 10:46 AM.] |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 10:49 am
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| From the few months of research I've done, I would say the biggest bang as far as ROI is concerned is in Lap Steels rather than pedal steels. From what I can see, they seem to be appreciating very rapidly. |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 12:11 pm
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It depends on perspective and time frame too.
Buy a new steel, keep it for a year, and see what it's worth compared to what you paid for it. (!) Now, that's a bad investment!
-John |
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 1:36 pm
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so many good points,Bill you are right about the lap steels,i bought 2 last yr.6string fender champs,one was great and one i got burned.one guy had one for 650. i emailed him and told him he was crazy,he said watch!! it sold for almost 800 so i shut my mouth!i love old sho-buds and they keep holding there own it seems.i bought a emmons legrand 2 lost my shirt on it.i'm not much of a horse trader it seems.i buy high and sell cheap!!not to good.seems like once we get the bug its hard to get out of our system tho,thanks for all the responses guy and keep um coming, give us your ideas.
farris |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 3:39 pm
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| Quote: |
| When you double your money on your investment that is a 100 percent profit. |
Only if you sell it within a year of purchase. After that, inflation kicks in.
Some time ago I did a calculation on Sho~Bud guitars. I took the list price of a given year and used an online inflation calculator to determine its present value (2002) i.e. the "break-even-point" for 2002.
Permanent D-10 1962: 480.00 2002: 2776.86
Fingertip D-10 1963: 620.00 2002: 3547.75
Crossover 1970: 1295.00 2002: 6111.95
Professional D-10 1973: 1450.00 2002: 5997.89
Pro I Custom 1976: 895.00 2002: 2878.60
1981: 1450.00 2002: 3039.54
Pro II Custom 1976: 1595.00 2002: 5130.02
1981: 2120.00 2002: 4444.02
Pro III Custom 1976: 1795.00 2002: 6298.65
1981: 2350.00 2002: 4926.15
LDG 1976: 1195.00 2002: 3843.49
1981: 1720.00 2002: 3605.52
Super Pro 1977: 2175.00 2002: 6611.98
1981: 2850.00 2002: 5974.27
Super Pro II 1983: 3530.00 2002: 6317.05
Disclaimer: I do not know how accurate the inflation calculator is. You might want to check the results yourselves.
If you bought your guitar new at a discount to the manufacturer's suggested retail price, the results would be different, too.
Anyway - the 2002 prices only show the break-even-point, the point where you don't lose any money. If you want to turn a profit - of let's say 3% per year -, all those prices would be in the 5-figure region.
I haven't seen a Sho~Bud sell for that kind of money lately - not even on Ebay. 
Rainer
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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, '70 Emmons D-10 8+4, '69 Emmons S-10 6+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, '73 Sho~Bud LDG 3+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400, Line 6 Variax 700
[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 24 February 2005 at 03:41 PM.] |
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 4:19 pm
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| Rainer,i wish i was that smart,my figures don't go past 2X2=5 Dang i missed it somewhere down the line |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 4:21 pm
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This is not an accurate calculation. It is based on LIST price. No one pays LIST price.
You would need to calculate this on average retail sell price. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 24 February 2005 at 04:22 PM.] |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 5:03 pm
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Kevin,
I said as much in my post. I suggest you do your own calculation, based on the actual prices you paid. There are plenty of inflation calculators online.
When it comes to money, belief is just not good enough.
Rainer |
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Duncan Hodge
From:
DeLand, FL USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 8:00 pm
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Uh, Kevin...X amount or purchase, times Y amount of inflation, always equals Z. It's just like Ranier said. The only confounding variable is that ZBs are always worth it.
Duncan |
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 8:06 pm
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Hello Duncan,man i hope old sho-buds are on that list too. how about Jennings new quad.man thats got to be a monster.way to go jennings. you guys take care, all here in good old sunshine state
farris |
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 8:10 pm
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Jennings i forgot to add , got 3 big FAT ones in the pen. man i can't wait
farris |
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