How often do you need to tune your stops?

David Friedlander · From: New York, New York, USA

Hi Everyone,
I just had to pull the pickup out of my Emmons P/P ( S10).
Upon restring the axe, one of the pulls on pedal A was slightly shy.
No biggie- simply adjust the pull.
But I thought P/P's were more stable as far as having to adjust pulls ( and pushes).

I need to keep a close watch on the pulls on my all pull guitars ( Marlen S/10, WIlliams S/10, Lamar S10).
In addition to checking everything the few nights before a weekend show, I need to check the pulls when I set it up on stage.
When we play multiple nights in different houses, I often have to adjust the stops every night.

So- My question- How often does everyone need to adjust thier pedals and levers?

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

David, I think most everybody does a little "touch-up" when they restring. A lot of factors affect the tuning. Temperature, humidity, string wear and string brand, also how hard you pick and how often you change strings. Strings will "settle in" after a while, and then require very little attention, but small tweaks are normal for most of us.

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

David,
Temp change seems to be the biggest factor in any guitar, even the temp change from your hands can sometimes effect your tuning.
The best PSG, I ever had was an MSA with the crossbar pull system, it stayed better,or as good as any I ever saw. Try sitting under an AC vent on a hot humid nite, then you will really know what a bad nite for tuning really is.

Donny, looks like we were posting at the same time,,strange how sharp minds thimk alike....LOL

Bill

[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 01 February 2005 at 06:42 PM.]

David Friedlander · From: New York, New York, USA

So you guys have the same experience- When we tour i the summertime the guitar gets so hot in the trunk , then you set up on a stage with an air conditioner blasting.
Of course wouldn't it be great if we could set up an hour before playing to let the guitar stabilize.

But what about the real world- where you're attaching the pedal rods as the Bass Player is starting the first song?
So what do you guys do? Tune to pitch and play immediately- then you're out of tune by the third song or so. Or play the first few songs , compensate and not play any open strings, then tune?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

The only time I need to tune the stops is when I change strings and unwittingly put a different guage on a string. I've gone 6 months without tuning any of the stops on either neck (and I use 8X8 on D10 Franklins).

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www.tyack.com

David Doggett · Posted 1 Feb 2005 8:21 pm

I'm like Dan, I've gone for a few months without touching the stops on my Zum or push/pull, unless I change string gauges. I never touch the stops on stage.

As for the open strings, in really hot or cold weather, the steel is always the last thing out of the house into the van, and the first thing out of the van into the venue. In the van I use the air conditioning or heater to try to keep the guitar room temp. in transit. In extreme weather outside, I try to arrive early enough to let the guitar adjust to the venue temp. for half-an-hour or more, even if it is not setup on stage. Even though temp. changes might have changed the string intonation immediately upon arriving at the venue, after half-an-hour or so, they have settled right back to where they were at home when I tuned up. This doesn't work if the venue itself is a lot hotter or colder than my home. I check with the meter if I have time, and may make minor adjustments. But on occasions I don't have time for that on stage, and just have to go blind into the first set. Usually, with a loud band, and the loud drunks, the intonation I set at home is passable - certainly within the range of the difference between JI and ET...but wait, let's not get started on that.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 01 February 2005 at 08:25 PM.]

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

IMHO when the guitar is going through temperature caused wierdness, the last thing you want to do is mess with the tuning of the stops. If taking the guitar in from the cold or hot to a reasonable temperature, I typically don't touch anything until the guitar stablizes. 9 times out of 10 I don't to touch anything at all once the guitar settles down (in terms of temperature).

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Good advice from Dan.
If you tune the string, the stop should be in tune. After the temperature stabilizes, tuning the string should be enough.
I only tune the stops when I change strings.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I agree with my pal Dan T. If my guitar was in tune when I last put it in the case, and it's out of tune when taken out of the case, I wait for it to stabilize before even touching the tuning machines. If that's at all possible, sometimes it ain't.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

If I need to put a wrench into the side, it always means I need a new string. I change strings constantly, and almost never have to adjust the pulls...

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I think all guitars require a little 'touch up' after changing strings -- even without changing brands or gauges.

It's not always possible, but what I try to do is to set up whichever guitar I'm going to play a gig or session on a day or so before. (obviously, I DON'T play 6 nights a week). I've found that when I play at home for an hour or so, then tune as needed, two things are evident
* very few tweaks are necessary at home OR on the bandstand and
* once I get to the bandstand the only thing I touch is the tuning keys

At a gig, like others reported above, I avoid tuning anything before the guitar acclimates itself to the room temp and humidity. Then I tune the open strings and play the first set.

VERY RARELY, a little tweak may be necessary -- that is VERY rarely. A typical gig for me is to walk in the door 15 - 30 minutes before time to start; set up; and play. I will check tuning by ear and never tune anything but the open, unchanged note. Works for me.

Both my Fessy and my push-pull are very stable, tuning-wise. My tuning wrench usually just stays in my pick pouch at a gig.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

John Macy is absolutely right.

Winnie Winston · From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.

Just like John said.
I got my Kline in 1979 and have touched the right endplate only three or four times in that period. I have never touched anything on the underside except when I made some pedal changes.

JW

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I hardly ever tune the pedals on my Sierra. I can't remember the last time. It stays where I put it.

My Williams D-12X is new, and I've been touching it up every month or so. Not that it drifts or anything. I just haven't quite found the sweet spot for all of the changes yet.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Guest · Posted 2 Feb 2005 4:42 pm

Honestly Dave - I routinely kick my '75 Emmons p/p for weeks and never need the Allen wrench. And thats after being broke down and set up almost every weekend. My stay at home '78 rosewood mica clone is the same story! I think once they are properly adjusted they are very reliable. I do wish they weighed 30 pounds though!

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

I also can not remember the last time I needed to touch a pedal stop.

Hook

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HookMoore.com
Allen Moore

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

We show up a minimum of an hour early on our jobs and my guitar is always on stage and ready to go a minimum of a half our before we start. I always check every stop on the guitar before I play. I feel that I owe it to the audience to make sure that my guitar is in tune before I start to play. With an in line tuner I can do it in less than five minutes. I also check the guitar through the night.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Ok, evidently you guys all live in homes with central heat. My mobil home hadn't got central heat, and it's cold ever morin and if I miss a day of playin then the next day my steel is very much out of tune. it's always BAD flat. is it the strings, or is it the temperatue that causes this? and I also have to tune my pedals and knees.
Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

David Friedlander · From: New York, New York, USA

Terry- You have this problem with a ZUM???
Now I actually feel better. I had heard Zum was the most stable PSG.

I guess it stands to reason that if the metal is colder is shrinks- flatting the strings, right?

How about how hard the players press the pedals and levers- anybody think this also comes into play?

Thank you to everyone for the answers

Lem Smith · From: Long Beach, MS

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

This is another of those ET vs JI deals.
BOTH CAN BE RIGHT

I play a show each year with John Hughey who plays ZumSteel guitars -- none finer. John sits with his tuner and TURNS NYLON NUTS for a few minutes before his set. You are not a bad person because you tune your pedal stops from time to time -- WHETHER THEY NEED IT OR NOT.

And, YES, temperature affecte ALL GUITARS. NOBODY'S guitar is in tune when brought in out of the cold trunk on a winter evening. I don't care WHAT brand it is.

We don't all have the luxury of changing our strings every few days, so, when we do change them after six months or so, SOME OF THE STOPS WILL NEED TUNING. It happens. Strings change with age.

THERE IS NO SINGLE RIGHT ANSWER

If you play your guitar in tune it DOESN'T MATTER HOW OFTEN YOU TUNE YOUR PEDAL STOPS.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

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