quite a difference in sound

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

I play my Zum through a session 500rd, and at church it sounds to me like I'm playin in a huge barrel. sounds terrible to my ears,course everbody else says it sounds good. at home it sounds really good, has that clean crisp tone that I like. At church I have my amp behind me, at home my amp is kinda at my side. wonder if I put my amp to my side and turned it toward me at church it would sound better to me? Or is it just the difference in acoustics in the two places.
BTW- I think I'm likin my True-tone a little better the more I play my guitar. Kinda grows on ya I reckon.

Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 02 February 2005 at 08:14 AM.]

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

I would think it is the acoustics.
my steel is in my living room. a large kilim covers the floor and the furniture takes up the corners.
the sound is nice with no hard sound bouncing surfaces.
when my steel is in the jam space, with concrete walls and a glass divider the steel sounds harsher and echoey.
placement of the amp is to my side slightly behind me; I have to hear what I am doing as we use no moniters.

I imagine with an EQ you could tweak your sound at the church so it sounds better for you.
that's important, because when I hear what I am doing I play much more confidently and thusly, better.

[This message was edited by Randy Reeves on 02 February 2005 at 08:21 AM.]

Dag Wolf · From: Bergen, Norway

Terry.
Sounds like you getting to much "back draft" or sound from the back of the amp. That happends when you have a wall behind the amp that is not "damped" (is this the right word?) with carpet or whatever.

I once had this problem and simply opened my steelcase behind the amp that was sitting on the floor. That took care of most of the problem.

Maybe some foam in the back of the amp will help you as I expect that hanging damp material on the wall of the church won`t be granted.

Good luck.

Dag

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Very few churches are wired or built with amplified sound acoustics in mind. I most certainly don’t mean this in disrespect; however, the majority of churches are like huge caves that bounce sound all over the place.

For those of you who have a little difficulty with your hearing, how clearly can you hear the sermon? In our church, which is fairly large, we have in house hearing devices that us old guys wear. Without them, I can see our minister’s mouth moving and hear muffled sound but that’s about it.

We have a fairly good band at or church and they have a terrible time balancing their sound reproduction so it is close to being equal throughout the church. Also, what sounds great when playing the trumpet, does not work for the guitar players. It is a balancing act for sure. Our preacher, who is a gifted lead guitar player, has tried about everything he can think of to rectify the sound quality in our church but has given up. No matter where he placed the amps or how many he used, the problem still existed.

One of our guys places a piece of 1/2" foam in front of his amp to soften things up. It seems to have worked somewhat.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

I really appreciate ya'lls yelp. I might try the case behind my steel trick, and see if that helps.
Naw, Dag, I doubt our Pastor would go for that. LOL!

Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

YOu don't describe your home placement and your church placement relative to walls and the audience etc.

the big barrel sound, sounds like close resonances in a very live environment.

Getting your steel closer to whare you normaly have it wii likely make it sond more normal.
Even if thgat means turning your self, to fit a proper amp placement for the room.

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Couldn't help chiming in here. I've had some experience with acoustics and sound reproduction in a wide variety of venues. I did concert and recording sound system design for about 12 years.

IMHO, the best method, over all, is to place your amp close behind you, on one side or the other, angled up so you can hear it clearly. And practice that way, too...so you are used to that placemment.

There's not much of anything you can do about the random-venue acoustics, except maybe your position in the room and how loud your band plays.

For those who play recurring gigs as, for instance, a house band, sometimes the judicious placement of acoustic foam, or plexiglass can do wonders. Controlling the source of the sound, so as to focus it in one direction only, is my point. The causes for that "basketball auditorium" sound is too many reflections off of hard surfaces. Can't do much there...but, if you can "aim" a more focused sound into the room (ie., foam behind the amp), you'll be helping to reduce those harmful reflections.

Sorry if I've made this sound complicated, but it is...very much so. So, if you just experiment, eventually you'll find a solution...may take a while...but, you'll find one.

Again...just MHO.

Mike

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Do ya'll mean tape a piece of 1" foam to cover the entire back of the amp? I could do that, even paint it black to make it look a little better.

I'd do it if I knew it would help.

Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

That is why I like the closed back cabinets of my stereo steel set up. It doesn't happen like that to me any more.

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Hi Terry,

Again, IMHO, a piece of one inch foam probably wouldn't be quite enough...unless it was very dense. You have to block the sound, as much as possible, exiting the rear of the speaker cab. Think of your speaker as a light bulb. Now try to block the light from getting out of the cabinet in all but the front direction. Does that help to visualize the situation?

A closed cabinet is very helpful in terms of focusing the sound. Especially if it has heavy walls that won't transmit sound through vibration. This won't really be very practical, since, for a 15" speaker, you'd need something like 1" thick cabinet walls with heavy bracing. lol This stuff can make you crazy...so just try, as much as possible, to get as much sound to exit only from the front and you will go a long way in helping reduce those nasty room reflections. (plexiglass around three sides of the drummer helps too...but they won't like it)

Of course, I didn't mention the volume level of the overall group. The louder they play, the harder it is to hear oneself, so you play louder, then they play louder, and the circle is unbroken!?!?!? This causes the room to reverberate more and more....the result is that nobody can hear anything but noise and everyone's unhappy. If you can control your sound such that you can always hear yourself clearly, you won't have to play that game.

I've rambled enough, my friends....someone else can chime in here.

Mike

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Terry, the steel player we have working with us uses a very heavy gauge piece of foam to cover the entire back of his amp. He "wants" some of the sound to filter through the back. The foam has several 1' holes in it. He has a tube amp so he needs some air circulation to cool his amp.

He also places a piece of regular foam sponge about a foot in front of his amp. The sponge is about 12" all around larger than the amp's case. The only place he does this however is in the church. He also has his amp sitting at a 45 degree angle facing towards him and the congregation.

The fellow who plays the bass is on the far side of the stage at the request of the other church band member.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Thanks for your help guys. I think I'll just settle for sittin my steel at my side facing me at an angle. at least I'll be able to hear it better. The church band practiced tonight, and the bass player went to the furtherest pugh, and listened. He said the steel didn't sound echoish back there.I think the main problem is where we're sittin. And that's right in the middle of all the music. So I'm not gonna worry to much about it. thanks again

Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

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