First Post-Push Pull question

Joel Paterson · From: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Hey folks,
I've been following the proceedings for many months and decided to jump in. I'm a guitar player in Chicago-I play a lot of country blues, jazz, Travis-pickin', etc. I've had the pedal steel bug for about a year and (I know you can all relate) I'm totally off the deep end now.
I just got a '72 Emmons D10 from Billy Cooper's. It's a great guitar but I'm having a little trouble adjusting to the feel of it. I have a S10 push pull that plays great, very quick response. The D10 pedals feel a little sluggish in comparison. Seems to be a little notch in the A pedal and the return of the pedals feels a little slow. Also, My RKL doesn't return all the way, I have to grab it and pull it back. Any simple PSG advice for Dummies? Not quite ready to send it to Mike Cass.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Although I've done some work on my pp changing some pulls (and pushes), it was in excellent shape when I got it. Sounds like yours could use an over-all over-haul. Doesn't sound like a little tweak here, a little tweak there kinda deal. My first inclination is to go ahead and send it out. Knowing what a well adjusted pp plays like, as you do, it's enough incentive to bite that bullet and get it done right, ya know? On the other hand, are you aware of John Lacey's wilderness guide for pp maintenance? http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html
A wonderful resource for which I am most grateful.

btw--this is your first post-push pull question. did you have any pre-push pull questions?

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 18 January 2005 at 01:52 PM.]

Joel Paterson · From: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Hey, Jon. I guess I don't remember life pre-push pull! I think I may have left the house more. Thanks for the link. I've been reading the "improve pedal feel" section. Yeah, I kinda hurt myself getting this guitar and I'm not ready for the Mike Cass D10 prices I see on his website. Billy Cooper sent it out ready to go but I guess they all need some TLC. It's a pretty clean guitar and I get the impression it hasn't been played much over the years. Maybe that's part of the problem.

Thomas Bancroft · From: Matawan, New Jersey, USA

I'm suprised that Cooper's would send you a PP that doesn't work like it should. Is it that the RKL drop doesn't come back to pitch or the lever doesn't return to position. Billy Cooper rebuilt my PP years ago and it was fantastic. The Coopers are fine people and I'm sure that they would take care of any problem you might have with a steel you bought from them.

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Mullen D-10, Melobar Rattler, Nashville 1000, Alesis Midiverb, Too Many Guitars!

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Joel,sounds like mabe something to tight in linkage if you can pull back with hand.just my thinking.my sho-bud did that when i got it,i oiled the pullers ect,didn't do no good.then i found the pedals were to tight moved brackets over a little and all was fine.weather changes things,as i'm in Fl.and had to rework the guitar,to make things right.just a little to think about.
farris

Charles Curtis · Posted 18 Jan 2005 2:42 pm

I would e-mail Billy; he took care of my Emmons for me and I like doing business with them.

Joel Paterson · From: Chicago, Illinois, USA

I hope I didn't give the impression that Billy Cooper sent out a guitar that wasn't working. I have nothing but nice things to say about dealing with Wanda and Billy. It is very playable- but I can't help comparing it to my S10 push pull. I guess there is a subtle difference between setting up a guitar to factory specs to sell and really making it play optimally. That's slightly subjective and up to the player. It's a clean guitar and I'm sure any retailer would be hesitant to mess around with it too much-"if it ain't broke don't fix it." And anything can happen in a UPS truck in a Chicago winter. Overall I'm very happy with it, I went through a few steels and realized that a fatback Emmons would be my dream guitar. I was just wondering if there was anything a layman could do before sending off again.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Joel, if your S-10 is working fine, turn both guitars over and operate the A pedals. You should be able to see the difference. No doubt that on the D-10, the changer fingers are not starting and coming to a full stop at the same time. String 10 needs less travel than string 5, so it will have a longer spring on the pull rod, between the rod collar and the bellcrank. The spring is there to slow the movement on that rod. If they are not starting at the same time, adjust the rod collars so that they do. If they do start at the same time, it's possible that the springs need to be replaced. On my guitar, the spring on 10 is more than twice as long as the one on 5. The "slugish" feeling that you describe, implies that the rod collars need to be adjusted.

The return springs are flat against the body, near the changer. If a lowered string is not coming back to pitch, it's spring needs more tension. It's hard to adjust these, you have to fish around with a pair of pliers, through the rods, stretch the spring, then move the collar and tighten. It may take a while to get it just right, but if the changer fingers are starting and stopping at the same time, peals action should be smooth and easy. Good luck.

jim milewski · From: stowe, vermont

compensator springs may be long and out of adjustment just a little, say on the A pedal string 10 goes full travel but string 5 needs a little more distance, the compensator on string 10 will compress allowing string 5 to go the distance then the bell crank hits the stop, this can give a mushy and harder feel

Joel Paterson · From: Chicago, Illinois, USA

I wanted to thank everone for their insight and knowledge. It's been a real crash course. I'm not so terrified under the hood now. I was contacted by a forum member who has a music shop near me and he helped me tinker with the Emmons this evening. A little oil took care of the knee lever return problem (RKL 1st string raise, 6th string lower) and the overall feel of the guitar.
Thanks, Bill and Jim for your expertise. I'm a little confused over all of the spring terminology. But we did realize that I'm missing a spring ( and a couple of others) next to the collar on the 5th string A pedal raise. When it hits the collar it it seems to be causing the notch in the A pedal. There are 2 different length springs for Emmons guitars? Can I find these at a hardware store or do I need to find someone with Emmons parts?

jim milewski · From: stowe, vermont

a compression spring with the internal diameter just big enough to slide on the pull rod, I like them short myself, about 1/8 to 3/16", also once the pulls hit full travel (contacting the body) make sure your bell crank stop on the body (Allen screw on the pedal rod lever) doesn't have more much travel, (I make all the stops hit at once then back of the bell crank stop about a full turn to insure the finger travel is complete. I remove the bell crank return springs, but there are other issues there, probably most guys leave them on.

Joel Paterson · From: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Thanks, Jim!

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