| Author |
Topic: Steel guitar patents |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
|
Posted 12 Dec 2004 9:15 pm |
|
|
|
|
|
Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
|
Posted 12 Dec 2004 9:22 pm
|
|
| Tr y This [This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 12 December 2004 at 09:26 PM.] |
|
|
|
Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
|
Posted 13 Dec 2004 6:21 am
|
|
| In the early 60's when I started building the PEDESONIC "FIBERGLASS" guitar I had a patent lawyer check things out. Because it was "Fiberglass" I wanted a "Design" patent. Because Design patents are only for 7 years he talked me out of it. Because it was such a wild METALFLAKE it didn"t sell very good.A few years later DEKLEY came out with something in material that was similar.Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works. |
|
|
|
Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
|
Posted 13 Dec 2004 3:47 pm
|
|
Ed, Dekley used Pakkawood which is resin-impregnated wood, compressed under vacuum, heat, and pressure. I wouldn't say it is close to Fiberglass at all.  |
|
|
|
Ron !
|
|
|
|
John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 3:33 am
|
|
Ronald,
This is the link to the
p-p patent #3447413
The date was 1969 and the patent expired around 1986.
quote:
Pakkawood is compressed under vacuum.But not nearly as strong as everybody says it is.IMO this type of wood is not recomendable for building a steel guitar body.It will create a huge Body drop.
It can be used though.But if you want to use pakkawood for a body you have to do it the way Noel Anstead is doing.
But why in the world would someone use pakkawood for a cabinet?
Because it is cheap?
The cabinet will need an innerframe that will hold everything together.This will create a weight that's way to high.
Dymondwood (the same type of stuff as Pakkawood) is very expensive and extremely heavy compared to maple. Composite woods composed of laminations and resin can actually be stronger than natural woods.
I owned a Dekley. Thay played well, sounded good, and were well made.
As a aspiring builder you might consider being more open to possibilities of alternative methods. There are many different ways to achieve the necessary result. A closed mind will never realize all of the possibilities
------------------
John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
www.steelguitar.com
www.steelguitarinfo.com
www.carterstarter.com
[This message was edited by John Fabian on 14 December 2004 at 03:38 AM.] |
|
|
|
Ron !
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 4:13 am
|
|
quote:
As a aspiring builder you might consider being more open to possibilities of alternative methods.
A closed mind will never realize all of the possibilities
John.
Maybe I expressed myself the wrong way.These were only things I ran into while trying to build a prototype.I used different types of wood.Including the pakkawood they sell over here in The Netherlands and the type we have here is not good enough.It's to soft
And when it comes to building.......I think that ALL the builders can teach me a lot in building steel guitars.
I started building a couple of years ago.You on the other hand are way ahead of me.I think that you can teach me a whole lot when it comes to building a good steel guitar.
Forgive me John if I did put it in the wrong way.That was not my intention.
Because I am always open for suggestions.
Ron
Nikaro SD10 4x6
 [This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 14 December 2004 at 04:22 AM.] |
|
|
|
Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 6:13 am
|
|
Ronald, it sounds like you're describing something other than what Dekley used. Please do an Internet search on "Pakkawood". It is almost as hard as aluminum and requires carbide tools to be machined.
Dekley used a captive aluminum frame, not originally for the strength, but as an easy way to connect two pieces of Pakkawood together at right angles. The result was a super strong (and heavy!) guitar with next to no body flex.
The original Dekleys used 3/8" Pakkawood for the tops, but later experiments showed that 1/2" maple worked as well and was much cheaper. |
|
|
|
Peter
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 6:59 am
|
|
Ron, Pakkawood is not the same as Chipboard.
In Holland they sell Chipboard only.
I found some good Jap-Birch in Holland though!
------------------
Peter den Hartogh
1970 Emmons D10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy
|
|
|
|
Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 7:04 am
|
|
| The "Fiberglass" PEDESONIC I built was a metalflake fiberglass "Shell" much like the old MSA Sidekick and Red Baron.This was bonded over another "Fiberglass"type material that was strong as steel for it's weight.I have not and will not reveal the typr material and the source. It's kinda like Coca-Cola and their flavor secret. Besides that it would cost Hundreds of dollars per body at today's prices.Ed |
|
|
|
John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
|
|
|
|
Ron !
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 7:49 am
|
|
Thanks John 
Ron
Nikaro SD10 4x6 |
|
|
|
Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 9:01 am
|
|
I've been trying every now and then for the last several days to get that link to work and it doesn't load. Has any one else had trouble loading it?
F.Y.I. -- U.S. patents that issued before about 1996 or so (don't remember the exact year) had a term of 17 years from the issue date. For U.S. patents that issued after that, the term is 20 years from the filing date. |
|
|
|
Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 11:35 am
|
|
| Jim Smith-Possibly a slight misunderstanding. My reference to PAAKAWOOD was it was a material different from laminates and "Plastics".Paakawood was used to make Knife handles. The material I used other than the "Fiberglass" cover was probably denser and stronger than Paakawood.I will have to go back and research the DENSITY of the product I used. ED |
|
|
|
Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 11:42 am
|
|
| My Dekley might have some problems, mainly it's too heavy to lift, but one problem it doesnt have is cabinet drop. This thing is a tank! |
|
|
|
Cor Muizer Jr
From:
The Netherlands/europe
|
Posted 14 Dec 2004 2:58 pm
|
|
Rick you are so right,
i had an dekley in the past for a long time
and that guitar doesn't had the cabinet drop
and i can say i refurbish that guitar then and the wood was extremly strong it was pakkawood that was used in the dekley's i know that for sure.this was so hard that i could let fall my bar on it without a dammage on it.
and ooh' the sound was pretty nice
but as doing then a research on it that pakkawood wasn't available in the netherlands.
cor  |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 19 Dec 2004 6:52 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| But why in the world would someone use pakkawood for a cabinet? Because it is cheap? |
Pakkawood does have certain attributes. It's totally unaffected by moisture and humidity, so you don't have to worry about shrinking, swelling, or splitting. It's also very strong and solid, compared to ordinary woods.
On the downside, it's expensive and heavy, and lacks the characteristic "ring" or resonance of ordinary wood. In short, it's not very musical. |
|
|
|
