The Steel Guitar Forum

Bobbe, a few weeks ago at the Kentucky show, my wife and I sat almost in front of you when you did your set. I noticed you played a JCH steel, but the end plate looked like it was "push/pull". Is this something new? Thanks..Barry..

This guitar was built by Jimmy Crawford in 1976, it was based on a P-P mechanicals. I bought this guitar directly from Jimmy then, He was the preimer P-P builder at that time but a lawsuit from Ron Lashley forced Jimmy and John to build "All -Pull" guitars from that time on. I'm glad to still have this great guitar. It has no price. And yes, it is often mistaken for the "other brand" P-P guitar. Mine sounds better than, well, I won't get into that.
Thank you for asking, several folks have asked me about this guitar, this should answer some questions. But don't ask Jimmy to build any more, legal reasons forbid it, unless he moves to Croatia, I beleive.

bobbe <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 11 December 2004 at 05:46 PM.]</p></FONT>

Bobbe, I sure like that blue Mullen you have on the floor down there.
Barry, I recieved your groups CD,and really enjoyed it. Thanks so much.

Bobbe, I sure like that new blue Mullen you have on the floor down there. .
Barry, I recieved your groups CD and enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

<SMALL> This guitar was built by Jimmy Crawford in 1976, it was based on a P-P mechanicals.</SMALL>

So what's the difference between Jimmy Crawford building one and the new Promat? From the pictures I've seen, if the Promat had an Emmons logo, they would be identical.

Bobbe! what other Nashville players play JCH?

Jim, that's the "Croatia" part. The long arm of the (US) law hasn't reached there recently.

Isn't there something in the patent laws to keep a US patented item from being made in a foreign country and sold in the US?

Bobbe,
Very interesting. In what year did Jimmie C. get slapped by that lawsuit? Didn't he have an arrangement to build Emmons P/Ps for awhile? I have one that he assembled around 1981.
-Dan

I thought the Emmons patents were expired

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp

Dan G., Jimmy's arrangment with Ron Lashley was only that he could buy Emmons "kits" at a $400.00 discount from wholsale, as I remember, Jimmy did such a great job assembling the guitars and started getting so much work doing so that it put a serious strain on the relationship. Everyone in Nashville wanted a "Jimmy built" Emmons P-P. One thing led to another, and the lawsuit appeared. Jimmy is a meticulous craftsman, and he want's things right. He couldn't, and really didn't want to build P-P guitars, so he went another route.
Dan, YES, Jimmy was a very respected P-P mechanic, you might say, too respected for his own good!

I'm not 100% positive about all these facts as they happend a long time ago, but I'm sure I'm pretty close to being correct. (I do have a memory like one of those big gray things, you know, with the big ears, and that hangie down thing in the front, oh, I'll remember in a day or two),<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 13 December 2004 at 01:23 PM.]</p></FONT>

Guy's,,,, I'll answer the other questions here tonight.

<SMALL>that hangie down thing in the front</SMALL>

euuhhhh???

Jim.
Not only the Croatia part of Europe.
When I put on another piece or part on the Guitar it is considered my brand.
Rules have changed over the years.
You have to add something on a steel guitar.
Just change something on the mechanisme and it is your invention.

That's how things work in The Netherlands these days.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Ronald ! on 13 December 2004 at 02:10 PM.]</p></FONT>

I bet if Carter has a same logo as a MSA it would look identical???.New JCH looks just like a ZUM ,maybe Bruce Zumsteg should sue JCH guitars?or maybe Mullen,or maybe was a Sho~Bud who should sue everyone else??what about Bigsby?don`t know,kind of confusing.btw. Push pull patent has expired.Promat is as close to other push pulls as all the other all pulls guitars are close to Sho~Bud.Hmmm, maybe if Ford sue Chevy ,or even better ,Nissan should sue Toyota, man this lawsuits all over the place... ..maybe Germany should sue Boing for making Jet`s???They have long arms,don`t they?those crazy Germans.How about Franch sue Winskonsin for the chese??I think I`m going to sue everyone with name Damir, that way I don`t have to work never again and can go back playing my Promat??or maybe not??maybe I`ll get sued for the licks I`m playing because someone else plays them...huh, never know these days I guess.As I already said,I`d like to move to the mountains of Montana far away from idiocracy of the modern world.

Db

maybe promat should sell their guitars with a five legs,that way they wont look like any other steel....but then..they may get sued by Rooms To Go since many tables come with 5 legs..maybe leg and an arm would be better,that way that spare arm can hold a bar or an ashtray..or something...

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 14 December 2004 at 06:59 PM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>New JCH looks just like a ZUM </SMALL>

No, they look like an Emmons. I have an almost new JCH, fairly new Zum and 2 LeGrande III's and the JCH doesn't favor the Zum but does resemble the Emmons. Of course I compared them side by side by side. Also, I would much rather get my cheese from Winskonsin than Franch!

Damir! How did you know why I moved to the mountains of Montana? No crime or grime or youknows here, I'm so far out, I had to put up 3 wind generators for my house & horse barn,"Free heat & lights" tons of lakes, streams,"all the trout I can catch" mountains, flatlands, on 2000 acres, I can play any time I want to drive 300 mi, so I stay close to home 90% of the time, I almost build a class night club but found it would't work without alcohol! Have a great Holiday Season! kr

"tons of lakes, streams,"all the trout I can catch, mountains, flatlands, on 2000 acres"
Kyle,that sounds like a dream to me,lucky you.I hope I can do the same thing one day.

Mike,I was just being sarcastic,they are all great guitars no question.I love chese,don`t care where is coming from.

Promat never had any intention to be by any means competition to any other steel manufacturer,at the time when I ordered mine Emmons wasn`t making any push pulls anyway, to me that was just a neat idea that if somebody wants to order a new push pull guitar he can do that now.There was always planty of all pull guitars to pick from but no push pulls, thats all.I tought guys would be thrilled with that idea.Instead to talk about a law suits we should be happy that there is a small steel shop somewhere where we can get a new push pull guitar if we want one.I think that`s great and now you can sue me if you think I`m wrong.

Damir (boy named Sue)
Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

Kyle, You asked what other Nashville players play JCH, Russ Hicks did for a long while but just sold his, Lloyd Green did for several years, as did John Hughey, Buck Reid with Lyle Lovette, and I'm sure several others, but as all of you must know by now, Nashville players seem to trade guitars and try new things often. The flavor of the week sort of deal.

bobbe

Jimmy just called and gave me some added info:
In '81 Jimmy had a good working deal with Fred Trogdon of "The Emmons Co." and the deal was that Jimmy would help the company get guitars assembeled because Emmons were over two years behind on orders. The "Jimmy built" guitars did a lot to help Emmons co. get deliveries out to the customers. Then unfortunatly, Fred died, Ron and Veda didn't know much about the "deal" with Jimmy that Fred had incorporated. This led to a bad misunderstanding that soon led to a lawsuit. The "Jimmy Built" steels were held in higher regard than the factory guitars by many of the professional customers, I'm sure the Emmons company did have trouble finding experenced labor to assemble guitars in Burlington. The great "fad" at the time was the 10-10 guitar. Jimmy was about the only guy that could build this configuration P-P and have it work perfectly, Any way, by the time this suit was resolved, Jimmy was happily building his own great all-pull guitar.
And that's the rest of the story.

Jimmy built mine in'76 and I've been playing it ever since, with a few diffrent names on it. One guitar, twenty names! <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 15 December 2004 at 01:17 PM.]</p></FONT>

To the chagrin of some, I will hi-hack this post. Hey Bobbe,that is kind of like being from Kentucky.....Population 10,000,000...10 last names.

P.S....I have full rights to Kentucky jokes,my family roots are in McGoffin County.

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D.S. Rigsby
Wilcox SD10 3&5

There are a few facts that need to be mentioned about this story. That would take a book to cover, too much to get into on the forum. We have decided to dedicate a page on my new web site WWW.jimmiecrawfordmusic.com to tell the whole story. So watch for it after the hollidays to get the facts. Many thanks to Bobbie for his post in my favor. It will be verry interesting. thanks JC