Amp placement

Ed Miller Jr · From: Coldwater,Mi USA

How do most players set up their amps in relation to where they set at the steel? Speaker pointing at your back, Speaker pointing at either your right or left ear, Amp in front of you facing audience? Also I know with single coil pickups amp placement has a lot to do with how bad the hum is.So, do you put the amp 10 feet away from you or what. Ireally don't want to change pickups yet. I haven't had this axe long enough to know if I want to bite the bullet and order a replacement pickup for it.

ED

Lefty Schrage · From: West Union, Iowa, USA

Hi Ed - After having experimented w/ amp location for many years, generally the most effective way for me is to place the amp diagonally in front of me and off the right front corner of my steel (facing me). I try to get it 5-6 feet away from me if the stage size will allow it. By doing this, I have the steel in my right ear and the band in my left ear which gives good separation (I sit on the right side of the stage). I have also found I can play at a lower volume level because I hear myself better even when the rest of the band cranks up the volume level. On a different note, Ed, did you know Bobby Hankins when he had the music store in Coldwater? I was in his band here in Iowa for 8 years. ...Lefty

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I put mine in back of me and elevated to at least chair height. If I leave it on the floor I don't like the sound and I tend to play louder. Sitting it elevated behind me minimizes the playing loud problem.

I had a PP Emmons with the stock single coil pickups. At stage volume levels the "single coil" hum was not a factor.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Ed,
I prefer to set up with my amp behind me, slightly to my right, when I use a single amp. In stereo, I try to have one on either side. In either case, avoid placing the amp in a corner or flush against a wall. I also prefer to have the speakers off the ground, either on my steel case or on a chair, 5' or more behind me if possible. That allows me to hear my own mistakes before anyone else does.

I have single coils in both my guitars and have had little trouble with hum or noise. Take a look at My schedule, if you'd like to come by and chew the fat at one of my gigs -- you're just a few miles down the road.

LTB

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

I play through an original 70's Session 400 w/15 JBL that sits on top of an Alembic extension cabnet with 2 Altec 12's and have used this rig for years now.
I guess it might have come about due to the lack of size of alot of the stages I've worked on in clubs, but if I'm seated at my guitar and reach back, my fingers will just touch the knobs. Since I've always got my "ruler/arms" with me, I get the same distance every time.
JE:-)>

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I know what you mean, Jim. Those early Session 4's are sweet, aren't they? The way I solved the 'more than an arm's length problem' was to put the head in a separate cabinet and use a single 15 cabinet. That way, the only long cable I need is the speaker cable. All the amp controls are at my fingertips. The Session is plenty loud for 90%+ of the gigs I play.

The original cabinet and speaker are still in the basement if I ever want to return it to 'stock condition'.

Works for me.

LTB

Bill Crook · From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance

In a lot of places,I have found that from V/C to DD-3 then to mixer-board works best for me. I hear what the audiance(sp) hears when the monitors are right. I carry a hoge-poge of amps and speakers with me just in case tho. Depending upon the venue,I only take in the least amount of gear needed.

I played one gig where I was allowed 2 channels on a mixer, I broke out the "Peavey Profex II" only !! With the stereo sound of that thing,I was all over the house. To be trueful, I think I would have played that gig for free.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I prefer having the amp behind me, chair level, of course I end up being a sound absorber from the audience perspective. I prefer single coil pickups, the 60 cycle hum is the most dependable and consistent part of my sound.

FIONA TOMANY · From: ISLE OF CUMBRAE SCOTLAND

Up on a chair not to annoy the neighbours underneath and far enough away not to blast my eardrums. what kinds of lead have you as poor quality leads can guve you feedback and hum.

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

When I first started my present job, there was no room on stage so I had to set up on the floor, stage left. My two speakers had to be on my right so I could face the band. Sort of like Buddy Cage's (No remsemblance; no comparison other than position.) set up. My first thought was: This is never going to work but I wanted the job and now after 8
months, I'm satisfied with it. There was
one other change I made to my speaker cabinets. I've always used open backs but
one of the singers is in a wheel chair and sits right behind my cabinets. With a DPC-1000 and two 400 watt Texas Sound stereo cabinets, I was hurting him.

Solution: Infinate Baffles, no ports and all the sound comes out the front. Trying to get used to this was worse than placing both speakers in my right ear. Several picking
buddies dropped by and were really so complimentary about what they heard that I gave it a second chance and now I wouldn't have it any other way. Point: You can grow
or adapt to a lot of things you might at first think impossible. How else would we learn new tricks? Regards, Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 14 April 2001 at 08:39 AM.]

[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 14 April 2001 at 08:41 AM.]

Jim Ashton · From: Malta, Ohio USA

I use a pair of 112e's and place them about 4 feet behind me and separated about 5 feet. I tilt them up just a little. Last Friday night, the stage was so small had to stack them right behind me less than a foot and it became the longest night ever in my musical career.

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D10 Carter, DPC1400, goodrich CD2
Peavey 112e's. tubefex

[This message was edited by Jim Ashton on 15 April 2001 at 04:44 AM.]

Fred Layman · From: Springfield, Missouri USA

Have any of you noticed this -- that the same guitar and the same amp sound different depending on whether the amp sits to your left back or right back? A few years ago I was playing through one amp and I moved my small music room around so that the only place I had for the amp was to my right. I wasn't happy with the sound quality of the amp but didn't know why.

I was working with a fellow who was into the right-brain/left-brain research who told me that the left ear feeds to the right-brain and the right ear vice-versa. At the risk of over-simplification (and some nuancing is needed), the left-brain is the cognitive, languaging center while the right brain is the affective, emotional center (can be reversed in left-handers). Bottom line: when my amp goes through the right ear to the left brain, the sound is more grating and somewhat raspy. When I changed the amp location to feed through my left ear to the right brain, the same amp sounded smooth, clear and clean. The only difference was a different side of the brain receiving the primary stimulation, i.e, the feeling, emotional side.

That experience was repeated recently. Donna and I were asked to present a piano-steel duet program at our church. I moved my steel and one amp out to our living room where her piano is for our rehersal and the only space I had for the amp was to my right back, sound going to the left-brain. Again, I didn't like the sound. However, at the church I set the amp to my left back, beside the piano and it sounded great.

I normally play with two Nashville amps going through a Profex II and don't notice the sound problem. But I wonder whether the sound might be improved to the ear if the amp to my left back was the primary amp and the amp to by right back was the delay amp. Hummm, have to experiment with that.

Eugene Cole · From: near Washington Grove, MD, USA

I am hoping to hear from a few more players about what you amp placement they primarily use and/or prefer to use. I am keenly aware that the compromise we choose to implement and what we would truly prefer to do are not always the same. I hope that some of you will talk about both your acceptable-compromises and your preferences.

I prefer a different setup than any of the other people that have posted on this topic so I will provide an overview of my typical configuration and amp placement. I will also explain what and why I like about this slightly different configuration.

I use a Session 500 which as most of you know is a combo-amp. As instrument amp go it is dimensionally-small when compared to many peoples “rig.” Since the majority of my steel playing is jamming with friends instead of stage performing I prefer to put the amp on a chair to the right of my seat where I can easily reach the knobs and I can keep the cables between the volume pedal, the amp, and the guitar fairly short. But when jamming it pays to be willing to free-up the chair for use by the bipedal-types that strongly prefer using chairs to sitting on the ground or the floor. So my secondary setup is to tip the amp backwards and rest top-rear edge of the amp-cabinet on a wastebasket or something of a similar height. I urge you not use the Session 500’s internal spring-reverb when you lean it back. When the amp falls on its back (if you lean it back against something it will fall on its back every so often) the spring reverb will make very-loud (sometimes painfully-loud) awful noises.

On stage I ALWAYS put the 500 on a chair to my right and I use the amp as a preamp and as a personal monitor (so I can hear myself play) and I ALWAYS run the balanced line out (XLR) on the back of the amp directly in to the snake or the mixing-console for the house sound. Doing this with the Session 500 is very easy because it has separate Pre-gain and Post-gain controls. Basically I use the Pre-gain to set the levels in the signal chain, and I use the Post-gain to adjust the level of my “personal monitor.”

I should point out here that I spend far far far far-more time sitting behind mixing consoles than I spend performing. For this reason my perspective on what does & does not work (for me) is fundamentally different than the perspective which many players possess.

So onward to the subject of why I prefer my “personal monitor” and on-stage preamp configuration for playing live with a band. I have detailed a number of my opinions and observations about the advantages and nuances of this setup below for your consideration.

1. You can at-will adjust how quiet or loud your instrument sounds to you without having to worry altering the house mix.

2. Your engineer has more control (via the monitor mix) over how loud you sound to the rest of the band throughout the performance. This really comes in to play the most when your band performs often enough that the monitor-mix becomes an integral part of your live-arrangement of songs/tunes.

3. Removing the speaker that is connected to your amp from the signal-chain that ultimately ends up in the house-sounds will eliminate the tonal coloration and/or distortion which the speaker introduces. The fundamental problem is that the dynamic behavior of any speaker assembly changes at different frequencies and at different volume levels. The severity of this problem seems to correlate to the age-of the speaker-cone, the inherent quality of the speaker assembly, and to how much use/abuse that speaker and cone have had. Typically the “fresher” the speaker assembly the less tonal coloration it will introduce because of changes in gain/volume/amplitude.

4. It is what I am accustomed to so I am comfortable with it.

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Regards
-- Eugene ^at FJ45.com

Click Here
Sierra U14 MSA D10 and almost nothing in the Bank. 8^)

Jon Jaffe · From: Austin, Texas

I love all of the space you have. Here is a picture of Dale Watson and Mr Davis

(on steel) at Ginny's Little Longhorn in Austin (a wonderful club). It smaller than the average two car garage.

They almost sit on their amps. The sound is fine, before or after a few Shiners.

David Doggett · Posted 1 Dec 2004 7:42 pm

I play through Fender tube amp heads and always have the head beside me for easy reach. I set it horizontal on a chair, or if space is limited I stand it on end vertically.

I want my closed back speaker(s) in the back line more or less directly behind me so that I can balance my sound with other amps at the back of the stage and with the drums. If my speaker is too close to me, I tend to play too quietly for the mix.

I like to get the speaker up on a chair or stand, but pointed straight out at the audience, not tilted up. When I am in the audience, I have trouble hearing steelers who have unmiked speakers tilted up. So I just don't do that. On the horizontal axis, I point it at the center of the audience, not at me. I'm a lot closer to it than they are. If I can't hear myself, I'm not playing loud enough.

Sometimes, in the dives I play in, the stage is so small I have to put my speaker(s) between my back and the bass player or drummer. Then I worry that they can't hear me because of the closed back cabinet(s); but usualy those rooms are so small my sound bounces off the walls and they say they can hear me okay.

In terms of miking, I consider the (internal) tube preamp, (internal) tube power amp, and 15" speaker(s) as part of my instrument. I lug this bulky, heavy crap around and put up with tube maintenance for the sake of that sound. Therefore, if going through the PA is necessary for a large room, I prefer to mike the speaker rather than going direct from the line out of the preamp. In that situation I want my speaker close enough to hear, but not so close as to drown out the stage sound or the monitors.

So far, listeners usually want me to turn it up a notch. The only ones who have ever asked me to turn down are occassionally the lead guitar, and once the drummer. Ha! Fat chance!

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 01 December 2004 at 07:47 PM.]

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Interesting thread. Bryan Adams sat down at my steel and amp and the sound was much better when he played. Bryan is a wonderful player when compared to me, so I figured it was his mastery of the tone. Then I realized something. Everytime I played, I was sitting at the steel with the amp behind me. When Bryan was playing, I was standing in front of him FACING the amp. I then experimented by turning the steel around to face the amp. Now, I was hearing the tone I was hearing when Bryan was playing, except for the obvious difference between a master's hands and mine. So, I re-arranged my practice setup by getting a 12 ft. cord and putting my amp on the opposite side of the room FACING me. I have never been happier. Unfortunately, this setup won't work on the bandstand without micing the amp. Has anybody ever tried two amps, one in front and one behind? Or maybe an extension speaker in the front facing you?
Probably wouldn't be worth the effort and you might get a weird sound cancellation problem with this setup. It is an interesting thought, though.

Pat Dawson · From: Chesapeake Beach, Maryland, USA

At first I used a tilt stand but now I place the amp on the floor behind me to the left. I have to play louder but, to me, it sounds better when you have to push the amp a little. I was going direct out but now I'm miking with a Shure Beta 87. I feel I'm more in control of my sound that way. I set up stage left and the lead guitar is next to me on my right. He sets up his Vox AC-30 like mine, angled to him and out of my direct ear bashing zone. This is all subject to change as I continue to find my way.

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1970 Emmons D10
Nashville 1000

David Doggett · Posted 2 Dec 2004 8:45 am

George, all the old original electric guitar amps were open backed. To avoid feedback they were intended to be set at the front of the stage out in front of the player. They even had the controls on the back of the amp facing the player, and the open back allowed the player to hear about as well as the audience out front. You could try that. But it takes guts, because the audience can hear you better than you can hear yourself. So it is very difficult to hide the clams, and you might be doing some bad stuff that the audience can hear and you can't. Another way to accomplish what you want is to use two back-to-back speakers, both out in front of you, one facing the audience and the other facing you.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 02 December 2004 at 08:47 AM.]

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