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Topic: That Pesty F# in E13th Tunings |
Chris Bauer
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2016 10:24 am |
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Help me understand what I'm missing here...
So many E13th tunings have an F# sitting next to a middle-ish G#. I try it over and over and only ever feel like it's in my way when it comes to single note lines and chord construction alike.
I'm more than willing to hear that I've been overlooking something vital about that part of the E13th tuning, though. So, any pointers on making good use of that F# before I drop it for good? |
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Stephen Baker
From:
Lancashire, UK
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Posted 10 Oct 2016 11:30 am
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| I find the F# useful, if we are playing in E for example, for making partial B (V) chords. Combine it with the B and the C# for a partial 9th chord. Incorporate the G# and that gives you the 6th note. Step that down two frets for those 6th to 9th type of things. Take the whole exercise down two steps and you have them for the A(IV) chord. I have just strung up a Six string without the F# with a low root instead. Within the hour I’d raised it back up to F# |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 10 Oct 2016 4:47 pm
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Pentatonics? Here are a couple of examples using Leon's E13. (Whoops. That should be A major not C major for the major pentatonic example)
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 10 Oct 2016 8:20 pm
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I wouldn't want to be without a mid-low F# in the E13 tuning. You just need to get used to skipping that string for major chords. Pick it for 9th chords, add9, and for single note, major scale patterns. I play 10-string E13, similar to Tom Morrell's tuning... also similar to E9 pedal steel guitar (the bottom 6 strings). Pedal steel players skip that F# constantly for major chords and pick it for scale runs and 9th chords, etc. My videos on 10-string Eharp (4 of them) feature E13 with F# on string 7.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 11 Oct 2016 12:11 am
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I think that the reason the F# is so crucial is that it offers so many combinations.
Example: drop 2 AMaj7 ( No root), 6/9 chords and many more
Tom loved it so much he added 2 and if he found it that useful so should you.
Also when learning your grips(another benefit of having 2 is to make common string skip shapes that repeat especially when playing at speed.)
I've only just started heavily on this tuning because there is so much there but you need to remember this.
Every chord can be boiled down into a Triad. This really helped me get a little insight on E13. Hope that helps. Unfortunately there are NO E13 courses and not many people are willing to share the knowledge unlike guitar where people flood you with tons of info. I miss that.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Mick Hearn
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 11 Oct 2016 4:34 am
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I must admit that when I first tuned to Leons E13 tuning I was stuck. Then I listened to Tom playing Blue Steel Blues and tried to copy it. I played it in C and found that a bulk of the playing was around the 5th and 7th fret so the F# came in very handy. My music theory is zero so don't really know what I was doing in musical terms but managed to find my way around.
I recorded it before I found the sweet tone on the National.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAI2lmyhuxo
_________________
MSA Classic 12 string Universal, Remington Steelmaster D8, National D8 Console x 2, George Boards Lap Steel, National New Yorker. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Todd Clinesmith
From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
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Posted 11 Oct 2016 1:26 pm
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One of the keys to playing on a trad. E13 is playing out of the 4 position.
,For example in the key of E fret 5 , strings 5,4 and 3 are B,C#E and fret 7 strings 2 and 1 G# and B. It is a dog leg but there is a lot of single string and partial chord work to be had.
The reason I like Vance E13 over Leons is the low B which serves as the one note when playing out of the 4 position. I use this all the time.
This should open a lot of doors...
_________________
face book page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinesmith-Instruments/1457245817911268?ref=bookmarks |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2016 2:52 pm
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Just a suggestion...there seems to be a "Hawaiian" version of E13th used by Jules Ah See and Barney Isaacs that eliminates that "B" third string. It goes from high to low:
E-C#-G#-F#-D-B-G#-E. Watching videos of Barney and hearing old "Hawaii Calls" recordings you can see how they used this tuning for some really "hot" improvisations with a very jazzy flavor such as on "Hawaiian War Chant."
Perhaps others can chime in with opinions on any advantages or disadvantages this tuning has over the "Leon" version (with the third B string). I bring this up because these two Hawaiian players were so very hot with their particular version of E13th. You may want to give it a try and use that easy two fret forward slant on the first three strings for really fast and easy ninth chords. |
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Mick Hearn
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 12 Oct 2016 12:32 am
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Thanks for the comment Doug.
As I previously said I know nothing about music theory so do get confused. What actually makes the 13th. I saw one of Basil Henriques posts where he showed his tunings and his E13 did not have the F#. When I commented he stated this was the tuning used by some of the hawaiian players.
Please excuse my ignorance.
_________________
MSA Classic 12 string Universal, Remington Steelmaster D8, National D8 Console x 2, George Boards Lap Steel, National New Yorker. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 12 Oct 2016 10:34 am
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| Mick Hearn wrote: |
Thanks for the comment Doug.
As I previously said I know nothing about music theory so do get confused. What actually makes the 13th. I saw one of Basil Henriques posts where he showed his tunings and his E13 did not have the F#. When I commented he stated this was the tuning used by some of the hawaiian players.
Please excuse my ignorance. |
The D = b7, G# = 3, C# = 13
this triad sounds like a 13th chord. from lo to Hi
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Chris Bauer
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2016 9:38 am
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Thanks all. I've given this a couple of weeks to steep, love all the ideas but, for now, the F# is back down to E.
This all could, of course, be nothing more than the tyranny of habit strength on my part. And, either way, I know myself well enough to know that I'll have the F# back on there again sometime soon and will dig back in to all of your ideas and more.
Thanks! (And keep 'em coming since, like I say, I have no doubt that I'll be cranking back up to F# again sometime or another.) |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 19 Oct 2016 9:59 am
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Chris, listen to Buddy's Boogie. You could not play those extremely cool things without the D and F#. That tune alone should give a textbook example of the value of the F# for steel guitarisms of the highest degree.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 20 Oct 2016 5:25 pm
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Another thing to think about, Chris, if you play C6:
In E13 (E C# G# F# D etc--not sure what your tuning is), those 3 consecutive strings give you the same thing as strings 2, 3, and 4 in C6, just a half step lower.
F# G# B as opposed to G A C. Just something to think about--really opened things up for me.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 21 Oct 2016 2:29 am
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| Chris Bauer wrote: |
Thanks all. I've given this a couple of weeks to steep, love all the ideas but, for now, the F# is back down to E.
This all could, of course, be nothing more than the tyranny of habit strength on my part. And, either way, I know myself well enough to know that I'll have the F# back on there again sometime soon and will dig back in to all of your ideas and more.
Thanks! (And keep 'em coming since, like I say, I have no doubt that I'll be cranking back up to F# again sometime or another.) |
Put it back as now you've lost your Drop 2 M7 chord with a Root. Which is essential. Example look at fret 10 and find C, B, E
Without it you will now only have other voicings without the root for your M7. EVER.
Hope this helps as it took me a while to figure out how Tom Morrell used it. Yes the Grip is a stretch but its all in straight bar and simply 2 frets up from your CM triads. It also give you an Augmented reverse slant. And many more cool extensions.
So something to think about. As I said if Tom put it there he had a reason.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 21 Oct 2016 2:38 am
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I've been playing around with my tuning some more and tuned my 12th string up from F to G.
Man I love discovering new and exciting things.
Why?
Doing this has just opened up some more my understanding and given me an octave lower Drop 2 M7 voicings and 13 voicings in reverse slants.
Also it enlightened me on the relationship of 3rds and 7ths more.
But MOST importantly it placed my M7 drop2 and m7 drop 2 1 fret within each other.
Plus many more cool voicings covering a wider range of sounds. One of the previous issues I had with the E13 is its "high range" as their was no low root note sounds.
And for those who are wondering I did change that one string. I don't mind tweaking my tunings until I feel happy. Plus its a part of the beauty of the instrument.
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_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 21 Oct 2016 2:48 am
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Here is a little taster of Rosetta tab.
May give you a better look at potential use of that 9th in there.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 21 Oct 2016 6:54 am
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| Quote: |
| What actually makes the 13th...? |
I've always thought that E13 must have the following notes: E, G#, B, D, C# (root, 3rd, 5th, 7b, 6th). And F# (2nd or 9th) is optional. That's how I learned it, but I'm not an expert in theory.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 21 Oct 2016 7:23 am
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What actually makes the 13th...? |
I've always thought that E13 must have the following notes: E, G#, B, D, C# (root, 3rd, 5th, 7b, 6th). And F# (2nd or 9th) is optional. That's how I learned it, but I'm not an expert in theory. |
The tuning does. But it's far from necessary when playing.
All chords can be expressed as Triads. But you already know that Doug I'm sure.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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