A Word of Warning about Shipping Charges

[Alan Brookes]

Shipping charges can be enormous. Before you decide to sell off your precious instruments to raise money to pay debts, be aware that the average steel guitar is enormously heavy. Be prepared to spend $90- $150 to ship it. Then you have to find a box big enough.

A regular-sized traditional guitar is longer than a steel guitar. It's obviously not as heavy, but it's longer, and the shipping charge is calculated on length. If you sell a guitar for $500 you can bet on paying $140 in shipping.

Then what happens if the customer is not satisfied, and he ships it back? You end up having to refund the customer, plus pay his shipping charges.

For instance, you sell an instrument for $800, including shipping. You pay $97 in shipping. Then the customer notices a problem with it, so you refund his money and pay another $97 to have it shipped back to you. You're out $194, and you're back where you started, and, by then, you've probably already paid your 2.5% fee to the SGF for a sale which never happened.

[Lyle Bradford]

I bought a guitar from one of the guys here on the forum and it was not what I had expected. I paid the shipping back to his address to me that is the fair way to do business. It was no ones fault I just did not like the guitar. If you send it back because you are not satisfied with it then I think the buyer should be responsible for the return shipping.

[Tony Prior]

while I agree with the overall context of the discussion, I have never paid more than $80 to ship a Steel or to have one sent to me. They averaged from $50 to $80, for a D10. Prices vary based on where we live in relationship to a hub and of course if you are dealing DIRECT with UPS or Fed Ex (packing yourself) and not using a Shipping outlet store where the prices are indeed inflated. Shipping charges are indeed based on weight and L X W X H of the box.

We have these shipping discussions often and it is best to KNOW the COST of shipping and the OPTIONS before we proceed.

If we drop off a Steel to be packed by the shipping store and they charge $150 then we learn if we packed it ourselves and dropped it off at the HUB it would have been $65 thats not the fault of the carrier. We paid for a service, the actual shipping cost is only PART of that service. We are paying for packing ,handling and shipping when we drop off at a shipping store. Those employees do not work for free and we should not expect them to.

Don't have a box ? Thats really common, make one ! Cover the outside of the case with 1" styro foam and build a box around it. The box at this point is just wrapping paper. Cardboard, a box cutter and tape is all that is needed.

Regarding returning an instrument to the seller, the only time that should ever happen is if the seller DID NOT FULLY DISCLOSE everything about the Instrument and tried to pull the wool over someones eyes. It was misrepresented. That is the ONLY failure of satisfaction that is relevant. "I changed my mind" or " I don't like it after all " only applies at Walmart. Know what you are buying , talk to the seller, make it clear that you expect it to be what the SELLER is disclosing. When the instrument arrives and we open the case, we should be surprised in a POSITIVE way. "Better than expected".

[Richard Lotspeich]

I got a quote from a UPS Store yesterday,, for a NV400 from LV Nevada,, to me in N Georgia. She said it would be at least 90 dollars. I would have had to let someone in Vegas box it too,, so there was another 30 I'm sure.

[Ollin Landers]

Tony makes a great point about shipping.

I always package everything I sell myself. I have shipped amps, steels, 6 strings, bass, etc... NEVER had a complaint or a shipping mishap (now it will probably happen because I said that)

I will never go to a UPS or FedEx store for shipping. Not only do they charge for the packaging and materials but they get a premium for handling the transaction, even if I package it myself.

I'm fortunate to have a FedEx location close to me and I can always have UPS/FedEx come to my office for a pickup.

As to who pays shipping and who pays for return, again I agree with Tony. Everything including a return policy, who pays shipping, how money is exchange etc. should be agreed to and clearly documented by email, PM or some other form. Verbal agreements (cowboy contracts) are just to easy to misinterpret or forget.

[Carl Heatley]

For Boxes:Go to a busy auto body shop..a lot of body panels come in large oblong boxes ideal for guitars and pedal steels...For styro foam Lowes or home depot sell sheets of insulation board for about $10...I always ask one of the guys if they have any pieces out back from anything that's been unpacked and they most often do...and it's free!
I take a lot of time packing anything I ship...Use plenty of good quality tape....And have the handle exposed for lifting on guitar cases.
I used to use Fedex and print my own shipping label and drop it of at our housing management office for pick up and the price was always very good.
Now I live in another area I use USPS and that has been just fine...Telecaster guitars usually cost's under $40 with plenty of insurance for most places.
Plus...I always include the shipping cost in the sale price of the item I,m selling.

[Tony Prior]

Do remember though , if you pack yourself and pay/print your label ON LINE, you can drop off your pre-packed/pre-labeled package with NO charge at any authorized shipping store. They get paid by the "momma shipper" by the piece, I believe I was told 3 or 4 bucks.

I seriously doubt they will tell you this ! I have been doing this for years!

[Lyle Bradford]

The guitar I just sent back was brought here by fed-ex!! The case had been busted on each front corner and the corner hardware was bent. 2 or 3 of the angle braces had been pulled loose someway and the brads or what ever holds them were completely gone. The guitar itself was intact but case would have to have been replaced. I have had nightmares with both fed-ex and UPS. Only in receiving items!

[Mike Archer]

I agree with Alan all the way

that's why I no longer ship amy large item anywhere

small items yes but steels and amps and electric

guitars are local sale only

just my way of doing it

mike

[Dick Chapple Sr]

My experience falls in line exactly with Tony Prior.
Without shipping I would be dead in the water.
My two hobbies..steel guitar playing and Garden scale model railroading...if I had to depend on buying and selling locally, no shipping, I'd have acquired virtually nothing, because living out here in rural Montana, I rarely find steel guitars and large scale trains.
Over the past few years I have bought and sold several thousand train items and over the last 4 years at least 30 to 40 guitars and amps with rarely a problem, when a problem has arisen, it has been resolved successfully. I have bought most through SGF, ebay, and craigslist.
Now I am going on 76, on SS, the only way I have to enjoy experiencing different guitars and amps is to sell and buy my toys because I don't have 3 cubic acres of money lying around like my favorite comic character Uncle Scrooge.
So for me, shipping is a given if I want anything. I have NEVER had a bad experience with anyone on SGF period.
Some of us physically cannot prepare a guitar or amp for shipping. But PLEASE, just get your young strapping neighbor to prepare your item for shipping to your satisfaction and get it out the door rather than just dropping it off at a shipping store.
Yes it is work and time consuming to prep a guitar or amp for shipping, but for me it has been worth it all, I can say I have met so many of you this way, and even though I probably never get to meet you in person, I feel I have many I can call friends, and I have experienced several different steels and amps.
GUYS.....shipping is simply no big deal...there's a way of doing it right....the human element of connecting with each other is priceless.
AND for those not wanting to ship at all....hey that's perfectly okay too!! If you have something I want bad enough, and I can figure out how to get there without costing a fortune, I will be at your doorstep willing to pick it up and meet another new steel guitar friend.
Buying and selling these toys is one thing, but interacting with each other in positive ways is the cement to our steel guitar world, this is what keeps me going.

[Chris Grigsby]

Part of the problem here is that many people make the mistake of shipping their guitar via a 'UPS Store'. UPS Store is not UPS and they charge a surplus to ship your package via UPS and also charge a fortune to pack it for you. They also scare people into paying them to pack it by saying that they won't cover damages unless they pack it, which is not UPS policy.

FedEx, by contrast, actually has satellite locations all over, often as part of a Kinkos, and do not charge a surplus to ship and have very reasonable rates for packing. I just shipped a PSG this week for $90, including $2600 worth of declared value, price of the large box, and the cost of having FedEx pack. The guitar I just received from a seller who shipped via UPS Store from two states away was closer to $160 and the packing job was pretty poor.

[Jerry Overstreet]

You're right Alan. Shipping charges are obscene. My last few sales have been hindered by these charges. With me doing the packing myself and dropping off at the FedEx depot, still ridiculous. Last pr. of 12" speakers/cabs I sent was almost $100.

Last guitar I shipped to Lubbock Texas was about $80 3 or 4 yrs. ago...probably more now....guy balked, said he got one from a store in Nashville, with minimal packaging for less than half that shipping cost. I just won't send anything out without insurance and proper packing, so they just have to pay up or pass.

You'd think with fuel prices down last couple of years, there would be some relief from tacked on fuel charges etc., but no.

If one is going to be doing a fair amount of shipping, it might be best to open an account with the shipper. That will save a little bit. Also use a business address whenever you can.

Within reasonable regional distance, I find it's better, safer to do a face to face deal with the seller/buyer. I've had good success with that in about a half dozen transactions within the past year, but I do a little background on the other party if I don't know them.

Of course that's not always possible for long distances, but you might consider that when feasible.

I see people recommending the Postal Service, but their prices have skyrocketed last couple years. Also USPS tells me that for international shipments, they cannot track once it leaves the US.

Better do some checking first.

[Alan Brookes]

Don't forget insurance. That adds to the cost.

To me, that doesn't make sense, but you have to do it in case they lose or smash up the instrument.

Isn't paying insurance to a shipping company, in case they screw up, like paying insurance to a bus company in case their driver gets lost? It's as though the shipping company is saying, "We're a bunch of morons, who lose packages and damage them, so you have to pay us extra to cover up for our incompetence...."

[DG Whitley]

Alan, I think it more like "we know crap can happen". Just a common sense thing to do I would think. Yes, you have some delivery folks who don't seem to care, but a lot of them do. But sometimes bad things happen to good people and you just do the best you can to protect yourself.

My 2 cents.

[Per Berner]

You guys just don't know how lucky you are. Getting a pedal steel across the pond costs 400-500 dollars, plus 25-30% in sales taxes and customs duties on the full value including the shipping...

[Lee Holliday]

Cycle boxes are also a good fit if oversize I cut them down according to required size, they are often free from cycle stores as they are glad of the space and they are double thickness cardboard due to the weight of the bikes they would have carried.
As an extra bonus the last box I collected had a 75% complete new mountain bike discarded in it as it had a slight scratch on the frame....

Lee

[Chris Harvey]

Yes they can be expensive. I plan for 100.00 at least. Personally I only use FedEx Pack N' Ship since UPS has destroyed two items. That guarantees the packing, but increases the cost. We have a UPS account with good rates at my office, but I won't use them.

[David Mason]

Part of the problem here is that many people make the mistake of shipping their guitar via a 'UPS Store'.

This can have another situation, almost the opposite. I live in a small(ish) town, and I know the owner of the store. One of the issues about them packing it is then THEY are liable. But I don't want to TEST that; so I took a steel down there and showed him, using his stuff, the best way to pack it. (Securing the innards with the blocks isn't patently obvious). And when he saw that, he both KNOWS it - if in some case I couldn't do it myself - but also HE will write off on it because he knows I'm doing it as well as he could. The odds are just the odds, I think. I mean, just because the roulette wheel comes up black seven times, it doesnt mean that it's NOT still 50/50 red vs. black. I.E., if UPS gaaked two guitars in a row for you, the odds they'll gaack another remains the same each time. Unless there's a specific demon hiding in your specific chain. Which could, of course, be true!

(You DO, of course, always offer up a sacrifice to the God of Shipping, right?)

[Damir Besic]

in case of damage, they pack - they pay, you pack - you pay... I always pay around $200 with insurance, their packing, and shipping...it is,what it is...not too many people want to drive across the country to get a guitar, I know I don't...

[Lefty]

I agree with Damir. Getting the case to someone safely without damage is #1 and will be remembered.
If you ship them a poorly packed guitar (or amp) that gets damaged then you loose a customer for life.
When I bought my D10 Dekley it was packed in a sturdy box, surrounded by foam, and an outer box was added. Man it was heavy, but no damage.
You have to consider your time also. It takes me a minimum of two hours to package something that large and heavy.
Lefty

[Mike Neer]

I've also found that shipping a single CD from the US to Europe has a minimum price of $13.50!

[George Redmon]

For medium to heavy boxes, might I also suggest checking out your local U-Haul store. Much cheaper then Staples. But Wal-Mart is the least expensive place for light to medium duty boxes. Just a suggestion.

[George Piburn]

You can always Drive it there your self,

Most states require auto insurance , but not for the contents , so you can shave a few coins.

You can charter an aircraft to make your European deliveries or require the end client pick up in person or by proxy.

I have found that 1st Class Postal Mail is very affordable up to 13 oz. - 4oz. to Western Europe is $5.40 usd.

The RockIt Cargo Service is professional to any destination they can protect in professional shipping tour cases.

You always get what you pay for, -- top quality shipping and guaranteed insurance exists.

[Johnie King]

Your always correct George,I've had good luck with fedex.

[Clark Connell]

If you want to save a bundle and pack a guitar yourself to ship....go to a bike shop and get a bicycle box and cut it down to fit; you will have plenty of room for bubble wrap and foam to pack it right.