Deciding on my First Lap Steel

[Rob Morrison]

Hi all,

I've wanted a lap steel for a long time, and have been getting more serious about pulling the trigger. Would love your thoughts. Quick bit about me: I'm a multi-instrumentalist but mostly play slide guitar (open G and D) and mandolin. I play in a folk-rock band as well as a prewar-style blues group, but love music of all kinds. I'd love to get a lap steel for further exploration of Hawaiian, western swing, rock, and country.

I guess the big question is whether or not to spend more money up front on a quality vintage instrument, or plunk down a short stack of cash for a slab of Supro or something.

For a long time I was considering a Fender lap steel (that Santo and Johnny sound!) but I'm beginning to feel it's almost too bright. I'm recently fixated on the sweet tone of bakelite Rickenbackers from the 30s and 40s, specifically the B6 "Panda." These go for big prices near me in NYC (around 1000-1500). The strung-thru body B6s seem a lot rarer than the tailpiece versions, ditto for the 1 & 1/2" pickup vs 1 & 1/4" pickup. If I'm going to spend over a grand on a lap steel, I have a feeling I'm going to seek out the exact version I want. Could take a while if I decide on the Panda.

Conversely, I could just get a Supro, Valco, Magnatone, or National for a couple hundred bucks. I've read that string spacing and scale length are important for slants (a new concept for me, as a traditional bottleneck player), and it looks like some of the cheaper lap steels fall on the less-convenient side of the spectrum (maybe I'm generalizing too much).

When it comes to my favorite mandolins and resonator guitars, I was glad I spent a larger amount of money up front in exchange for quality. But I know that's not always the case; I have a Squier Tele I bought for under 200 and it's one of my main guitars.

Would love to hear any advice you folks can offer, many thanks in advance!

[Dale Foreman]

Check out the Swamp Ash SX guitars. Reasonable price and they sound pretty good! There is a youtube tutorial of a guy playing Sleep Walk and is using SX guitar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18obUYfRt5M

[Jon Light]

The only thing I feel qualified to advise anybody on is: do NOT buy a steel guitar at any NYC retail shops. Their business models are based on the willingness to allow the steel to sit for months, if need be, knowing that someone will eventually come along, willing to pay their highly inflated price. And I don't doubt that they eventually do sell pretty much everything they display.
I'd guess that NYC retail prices are around 50% over the general market.

[Rick Barnhart]

[George Macdonald]

The Pettingill teardrop is certainly a work of art, but just getting into it, check into the Melbert lap steels built by Bob Allen. I have my second 8 string Melbert coming next month so I can leave a different tuning on each guitar. He builds both 6 or 8 string steels out of different wood choices with quality hardware and pickups. More reasonable than "vintage", and better quality than most made off shore. I have two 6 string vintage B6 guitars but the 8 string Melbert is the one I play most of the time.

[Jon Light]

I've sent you an email, Rob. Since you are local, I might have something that would interest you.

[Rick Barnhart]

[Stu Schulman]

Melbert!

[Charlie McDonald]

I was just about to post Damir's Melbert, but I'll just second the emotion.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=304807
Can't find a better seller than Mr. Besic, and the guitar looks perfect.

[Rob Morrison]

Wow, in addition to the Melbert suggestions on this thread, I also got an email from a forum member touting his Melbert.

What's the deal with these Melberts, and if you recommended one, why?

I honestly hadn't given a moment's thought to purchasing a new lap steel; not really into the whole SX/Rondo Music scene of instruments. But small-shop stuff is a little different so I'd be curious to hear about the Melbert. That said, I'm not sure why I shouldn't spend an extra 200 to get a vintage bakelite instrument.

[Bill Leff]

If the Ric bakelite is the sound you like, i would not recommend an instrument with a George L pickup. I currently own a bakelite Ric (the non string thru T logo type), Fender Stringmaster and Asher Ben Harper. I mostly play the Ric because that guitar has the sound that really does it for me. That said, the Melbert selling on the Forum looks like a great starter instrument and the price is right!

[George Macdonald]

Rob, There is a difference in the sound of a steel with a humbucking pickup, [eg. George L,] and a vintage steel with a single coil pickup. Some lap steels built today use high quality single coil pickups for more of a vintage sound, while many others use humbucking pickups such as those made by George L. For the last 40 years my main steel has been a pedal steel and I have always preferred humbucking pickups. Others, must have a single coil pickup. It all boils down to the sound you want to hear. If the single coil sound is what you really like, then possibly a steel such as a Melbert with a George L humbucking pickup would be a disappointment to you. I really like my 8 string Melbert, and I have a second one coming next month. I still have two vintage 6 string Rickenbacker steels that do have a great sound, and I don't plan on parting with them either. With a Melbert, you get a quality steel with all new hardware, tuners, and pickup that's looks and plays great, and at a reasonable price. By the way, I think 6 string Melberts do have a single coil pickup.

[Rob Morrison]

Thanks George, that's good info.

I do tend to prefer single coil pickups (my main guitars are a Jazzmaster, Tele, and Gibson Marauder whose 'buckers are voiced much more like single coils). That said, I have not played enough lap steels to really know what pickup type I prefer in that context. I'll make a concerted effort to try out a bunch of steels this weekend around town. Recon time!

[Robert Allen]

The 6-string Melbert lap steels used a variety of pickups over the years. EMG SES, Lace Sensors, Kent Armstrong, Bill Lawrence, and others. Some had a p/p switch on the tone control to use either series or parallel function. The one in the ad appears to be a Lace Sensor but without knowing the s/n I can't say for sure. -- Mr. Melbert --

[James Kerr]

Not wishing to take trade away from today's builders, but going back to your first consideration, how about the poor mans Fender shown here and played by me to demonstrate. Single Coil Pickups & Twin Neck.
All info on the Video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWVll5SxZ7M

James.

[Bill Sinclair]

That said, I'm not sure why I shouldn't spend an extra 200 to get a vintage bakelite instrument.

Don't think you're going to find a functional bakelite Rickenbaker for just $200 more than Damir's $150 Melbert. Maybe one of the metal body ones though.

[Rob Morrison]

Bill, right you are. I don't think I'd be able to get a I functional Bakelite Rick for that price either.

I was referring to a Supro, Magnatone, Oahu, etc. Those are achievable for 400 or less.

I doubt I'd be able to get a decent Bakelite Rick for under 900, in NYC or anywhere. And those metal body models, despite being beautiful, have a totally different sound more akin to a resonator. I have a National Triolian, and don't need another reso (at least not in the form of my first lap steel).

[Rob Morrison]

Update: played a few lap steels today, including a '46 Bakelite Panda Ric. By far my favorite of the day, but at 1400, it's a steep buy.

Also played a Magnatone for 450. Surprisingly nice (and I now know for certain I prefer single coils), but felt like it shoulda been 100 cheaper.

[Mel Bergman]

Buy one of the lap steels Todd Clinesmith listed today. There are none finer. You can always sell it for what you paid. The best. Seriously.

Mel SoCal

[Tony Lombardo]

Buy one of the lap steels Todd Clinesmith listed today. There are none finer. You can always sell it for what you paid. The best. Seriously.

Mel SoCal

I completely agree. My friend Hank Jones has an 8-string Clinesmith. As soon as I played it that first time I knew I was in the presence of greatness.

Tony L.

[Deirdre Higgins]

I would suggest a Melbert,

[Jack Hanson]

I was referring to a Supro, Magnatone, Oahu, etc. Those are achievable for 400 or less.

You can also purchase a decent postwar Gibson for under $400.00. Gibson 6-strings feature a wide string spacing and the 22.5" scale similar to most Bakelites, greatly facilitating bar slants on the lower frets.

Many of the current $99.00 imported lap steels are constructed with cheap, generic hardware designed for entry level 6-string Strat clones, making bar slanting difficult (if not impossible) on the lower frets.

Quality vintage instruments as a rule are much better investments than brand-new entry level instruments.

[Rob Morrison]

@Jack, thanks I'll keep my eyes peeled for the kind of post-war Gibsons you mentioned. I have seen them go for comparatively decent prices, but I want to avoid the ones with P-90s; just not my kinda sound.

As for all the recommendations for Clinesmith, they look incredible but that's a big price tag for me when there's not even one around for me to play before I buy.

And as for the many Melbert recommendations, I'd definitely consider one. But the Melbert making the rounds in the classifieds recently has a lace sensor pickup, and that's a big turnoff for me on any guitar.

[Rob Morrison]

Hi all, I wanted to let you know that I found a lovely little 50s Magnatone that I bonded with. I pulled the trigger a few days ago, and am very pleased with the decision. Even my cats love it!

[Bill Asher]

http://asherguitars.com/pages/electro-hawaiian-junior

These are a great option and pro quality at $675.00
http://asherguitars.com/collections/all ... eel-guitar