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Topic: Changing the Feel of knee levers |
Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2016 1:42 pm |
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I was told by an older steel player in my Area that I could loosen the return springs at the end plate of my G2 and make the Knee levers softer to engage. I like the steel the way it plays now. Im strictly asking for educational purposes. I would think loosening the return springs would cause tuning issues/instability.
Whats the word? Thanks
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 30 Jul 2016 2:29 pm
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It's POSSIBLE that you can loosen the return springs a turn or two without causing instability.
Ideally they should be just a tad stouter than needs be, but only a tad.
If you find the knees a bit stiff, you can move the rods closer to the axle in the bellcranks, or possibly rig up a gear-down shaft
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2016 4:18 pm Changing the feel of knee levers
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| If your steel has split tuning that could cause real problems. A friend of mine loosened up the return springs on his Rains steel and it threw the split tuning all out of whack. I agree with Lane changing the pull on the bell crank closer to the shaft or rig a gear down shaft is the way to go. Happy Steelin |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2016 8:46 am
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Is it really as easy as just moving the position on the bell crank? Would other adjustments need to be made? Such as stop screws etc.
Thanks
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 31 Jul 2016 9:37 am
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| It's possible you'd have to lengthen the throw to the stop screw. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 31 Jul 2016 9:49 am
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| Jeff Metz Jr. wrote: |
| Is it really as easy as just moving the position on the bell crank? Would other adjustments need to be made? Such as stop screws etc. |
The pull-rod has to travel the full distance for a given lower or raise. So moving the rod closer to the axle on the bellcranks, means the stop-screw must be adjusted to let the lever swing further. |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2016 7:00 am Re: Changing the Feel of knee levers
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| Jeff Metz Jr. wrote: |
I was told by an older steel player in my Area that I could loosen the return springs at the end plate of my G2 and make the Knee levers softer to engage. I like the steel the way it plays now. Im strictly asking for educational purposes. I would think loosening the return springs would cause tuning issues/instability.
Whats the word? Thanks |
That's not the right way to do it. It only works on lowers, and can easily reach the point where the lever doesn't return properly.
Instead, you should increase the travel of the lever and then move the pull rod to a lower (closer to crossbar) hole in the bell crank.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2016 5:15 am
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oddly enough I was reading in the Mullen owners b manual and they to loosen the return springs to soften the feel of lowers.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 5 Aug 2016 6:21 am
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| As per b0b's input the lowering springs can only be backed out so much before causing return problems. As well it can cause problems with raises on the same string. If the return spring is loosened too much the lowering arm will also move when raising a string. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2016 6:59 am
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It's one of the most common user adjustment errors. John Fabian told me that Carters don't have adjustable return springs for that reason.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 5 Aug 2016 1:32 pm
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| Jeremy Threlfall wrote: |
| So, the stop screw should be adjusted so the lever swings only as far as the full movement of the pull. Do you leave any slack at all, or do you err on the tight side, so that you don't end up pulling against the fully extended finger itself? |
Not sure if I fully understand you question, but here goes...
On all regular all-pull PSGs I have seen, the actual raise or lower stop is the stop-screw on the individual lever. There are no other "stops" in the pull-trains.
A little free-play must be allowed for in the non-activated lever position, to prevent having the changer-scissor hanging on the nylon-nut on the rod in open position - i.e. over-tuning the pull-train. Both the raise and the lower scissors lower edges must rest stable against the stop-plate in open tuning.
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The wrongly named "split-screw" on modern all-pull PSGs, prevents the changer-finger from rotating past a "lowest lower" position.
Pulling the lower-scissor past that "lowest lower" position set by the "split-screw", does no harm as it puts no strain on anything, but it also has no effect. That's how the "split-screw" becomes a "fully-lowered" tuner, while the stop-screw on the pedal/lever (along with the nylon-nut, of course) in reality becomes the "split note" tuner. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2016 3:01 pm
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On lowers with out splits (only)(Splits are a balancing act.) I loosen the return screws then from the tuning hole, push that finger's lower section with the eraser end of a pencil to judge how much tension is still there. This way I'm able to judge if there is enough tension to pull the finger back. I keep messin' with it till it's right. It's usually worth the trouble with a noticeable improvement. RP
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Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 7 Aug 2016 6:53 pm
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The lower-return springs should have a little more tension than what is necessary to hold the lower-scissors reliable against the stop-plate during full raises.
• Adjusting them much tighter than necessary, and these springs will tend to make lowering both unnecessary heavy, and also unstable by transferring lower-pulls to the raise-scissors - known as "lower-to-raise reversing" - as a high-tensioned lower-return spring will act as a (rather unstable) pivot-point.
• Adjusting a spring too light will make the lower-scissor move with the raise-scissor towards the end of pulls, and thereby make the raise unstable, and eventually unreachable.
The above is the same with or without split-tuning on a string. The "split-balancing act" will always work most reliable with well-adjusted lower-return springs.
• "Split-screws" don't interfere with the adjustment of lower-return springs, but should not be screwed in for the split until after the lower-return springs are adjusted.
• Split-rods OTOH may interfere as they act directly on the scissors, so such rods should have the nylon-nut tuned out so they have no effect until after the lower-return springs are adjusted.
NOTE: changing sting type/gauges or pulls upsets the entire adjustment. Recheck, and readjust.
Can be difficult to get these adjustments right if one isn't used to performing them and/or don't know in detail how all-pull changers work. I much prefer adjustable lower-return springs over fixed ones though, as at least the adjustable can be optimised ... the fixed ones can not. |
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