Interesting investment viewpoint,

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Upon reviewing much information and doing research on this subject I have come up with an interesting viewpoint on guitar values. In another thread, there is much to do about the previous owner affecting the value of his/her used guitar. Here is what I've come up with.
Long after the player is gone, regardless of who he is, the guitar will still be here. If the greatest steel guitar player in the world owns a good guitar, the value of this guitar is only going to be enhanced while this player is remembered. But, long after he is gone the value of the guitar will have more to do with what the guitar is and less to do with who the owner was.
There were many violins made in the 1700's that have had many great playing owners. The owners have been forgotten, but, the violins have increased in value. I see no reason why this shouldn't happen in steel guitar.
Unfortunately, most of the great steel guitar players today will be totally forgotten in a hundred years. Possibly their names will be written in places in history, but, their playing will not be very interesting to the players a hundred years down the line. I use the word "unfortunately" because by our standards today this would be unfortunate, but, possibly by the standards in a hundred years, who the player is and how well he plays won't make much difference. Material objects always seem to have a way of appreciating in value over the years.
As an example, the Bud Isaacs Bigsby guitar that is so desirable today because of Bud Isaacs and what he did for pedal steel guitar will be nowhere near as important as the guitar itself in a hundred years.
On a humorous side, I know this will rub the ego the wrong way of some of these well- known players today. Yep, in a hundred years (or a whole lot less) they may not be remembered at all and their guitar may still be around and worth in the humdreds of thousands. Remember, there are many violins two to three hundred years old and guitars nearing a hundred years old that are worth thousands and thousands that were owned by great players that no one remembers.
I'm only making this observance as food for thought, not that our guitars today will do us personally any good in a hundred years. This is merely to point out a few interesting points to make us ponder. What is your opinion on this subject? We are talking about the future, not the present.
bobbe

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Great subject, Bobbe. I especially agree about the violins, which are revered more for the builders than the players. One thing I wonder about is the mechanical end of steel guitars- lets face it, most of the collectible instruments from prior centuries are just wood and laquer, with the era of electronic amplification adding only pickups. I can see early fender and Bigsby steels remaining collectible, and playable, for many, even hundreds, of years- but look at the history of pedal mechanisms on steels- they've quickly evolved and the playing styles and demands for better/more changes have evolved along with them. Machinery rusts and decays more easily than the wood and pickups. I can forsee a very few players in the future taking pride in their hundred-year-old pedal guitars, but I wonder if the evolution of tunings and styles will continue to make our current state of the art guitars obsolete, except as museum pieces- whereas almost any modern fiddler/violinist would be proud to play just about any 300 year old violin. Will the very mechanical essence of our tools relegate them to the scrap heap? And if so, will some connection to a once-famous player be the only thing that keeps them from being remade into, say, a child's wagon?

------------------
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Mark Metdker · From: North Central Texas, USA

There is no doubt in my mind that these guitars will appreciate in value. I have bought and sold guitars and amps for years down here in Texas, and they have always gone UP in value. Having said that, I will estimate steel values probably won't be what guitar values are and will be. This should be true because of the sheer number of steel players versus the number of guitar players. But, it only makes sense that a guitar played by LDG or BE will be more valuable than one off the rack, or just a clean, old PP that was put under the bed back in the '70's and never played. I would love to have an old guitar owned and played by one of the greats, and I think a lot of steelers here would as well. I know that one of BB King's "Lucille's" would be worth a fortune. In the steel community, BE, LDG....etc are just as revered as BB is in the blues community. Common sense would tell us, it's basically the same thing.

Dave, I understand what you're saying about the mechanics of the guitars. Maybe these "machines" we play will be like the old hot rods of the '30's. Just put some newer, better parts on them and keep playing, or refurbish the guitar to "factory specs" and keep playing them that way. Hey, the PP is old technology, but still a good axe. Some players take pride in still using the old technology. I'm a car collector also, so that's the best analogy I could think of!

------------------
BMI S-10
Peavey Session 500

Band Pics
http://community.webshots.com/album/176544894AuXSmi

My other hobby
http://community.webshots.com/album/56863057VldOYC

Work Pics
http://community.webshots.com/album/104144205xDgckj

[This message was edited by Mark Metdker on 27 September 2004 at 10:08 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

quote:
One hundred years from this day
Will the people still feel this way
Still say the things that they're saying right now...

One hundred years from this time
Would anybody change their minds
And find out one thing or two about life
But people are always talking
You know they're always talking
Everybody's so wrong that I know it's gonna work out right

-Gram Parsons

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

If we could only get the pedal steel to become a full fledged instrument of the Philharmaonic Orchestra...

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Mebe yes n mebe no

On Violins, Paganini played a few, and they are worth more than others from the same maker.

Yet there is no one left who EVER HEARD Paganini actually play...

Still he was also a composer and so because he left some pieces of paper as a legacy, these violins are worth more today 150-200 years later.

Franz Liszt was the 1st music pop start, tyhe Eddie Van Hallen of the Piano 150 years ago.
He has left a name, because his career coincided with the Erhardt double action piano,
a thuge echnical improvment over spinets and harpsichords. So his technique was head and shoulders above all others of his time.

He also became a major composer, and teacher, so he left a large body of work.
BUT the same as Paganini, there is no one who has heard Liszt play alive, and no recordings.

But go try and buy an Erhardt piano today....

Now if you have a Leon lapsteel used in a Bob Wills movie, or a Budd Issacs steel from a classic seminal song,
or Speedy's axe from a Flaming Guitars album cover, it will retain more value down the line because of it's historical value, relative to an identical guitar of the same year.
Because the player was involved in some trancended music for the instrument.

It will have historical value, and since he / they all left recordings, he / they will be remembered, more than other players of the time,
who were near as good, but not recorded with the same influencial exposure.

LDG 1 will be worth a lot in 100 years, because Lloyd's work is not going to just disappear. And he represents a true time period in country music development.

Same for the Blade or Black Bart.
Buddy's catalog may not sell like hotcakes in 2104, but is not likely t o be obscured either.
He has left a mark, that will never be totally lost.

Even today we do remember Enrico Caruso, and sheet music and recordings he made or autpgraphed are still more valuable.
But few remember Alma Gluck , so her artifacts are worth less.

It has got to be related to both the artistic mark left by the artist,
and also the technical turing point that instrument represented.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 September 2004 at 11:25 AM.]

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 September 2004 at 11:30 AM.]

Terry Edwards · From: Florida... livin' on spongecake...

Well a hundred years from now I won't be crying
A hundred years from now I won't be blue
And my heart will have forgotten that she broke every vow
I won't care a hundred years from now

-- Lester Flatt

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Two little flies in the ointment:
One, I think that the "cult of celebrity" is at an all-time high right now, and this is bound to cause some unpredictable fluctuations up and down in the collectables market - is one of Segovia's guitars worth more than Hendrix's, Van Halen's, Kid Rock's? At what point does the baby boomer's disposable income, which is driving collection prices, correspond to the peak fame of certain players and the rarity of certain instruments? Two, in a world of six billion people (and growing), a "paper" monetary system unchained from tangible resources, and distinctly visible limits to some of those resources, I (somewhat gloomily) suspect that predicting the value of much beyond land, food and clean water could get pretty iffy. If OPEC were to get testy and cut off our oil, for example, you might be burning your Beanie Babies for heat come winter.

Klaus Caprani · From: Copenhagen, Denmark

quote:

"If we could only get the pedal steel to become a full fledged instrument of the Philharmaonic Orchestra..."

There's no need. This beast is a philharmonic orchestra in itself

------------------
Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I can honestly say that I would NOT trade my restored D-10 ZB Custom for any modern guitar. It sounds and looks better than any modern guitar that I've tried. Mechanically it is dead accurate and plays smooth, even better than some of the light action guitars out there, because I do not like light action guitars. Then again I don't use or need eight knee levers.

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Some wonderful and great thought here from everyone. David Mason, you said exactly what I was trying to say.
The guitars will be remembered, seen and played long after anyone will care about any player of today. A shame possibly, but then, who will really care. Lets say even 50 years. Has anything really happend in the last 10 years you can see being remembered in 50 years?
There are some good thoughts here, I'd like to see more, great food for thought. I don't have answers, just questions.
bobbe

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

(Burning Beenie Babies next winter?) How many BTUs in a '69 P-P?

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Good times and bad times there are always collectors, and historically observant musicians.

We are still talking about Bud Issacs in this thread.
So it's 50 years.
For that mattrer for Buddy on some cuts it's 50 years already...

Hendrix will still be considered a ground breaking influence into the future.

Maybe we can't tell into the future who of the current crop will still have resonance, but there will be some.
Just as a few still have for us now.

John Lacey · From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada

Will we be using electricity in 100 years?

Jerry Clardy · From: El Paso, Texas, USA * R.I.P.

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

The storms won't soon be forgotten!!we survived the 4th one in 6weeks.
Question,how about multi-chords.were they used in the old days for recording?were there any hot players on them?seems most people do not even know about them!i'm picking up a couple just to go back to the old days!how is the best to tune a 8 string multi-chord?seems they are fading away!!

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

There are a few keyboards ; organs and harpsicord or clavichords,
that are more valubale because Motzart did play or own them.
And his contact was instrmental in their actually being around still.

As intruments they are valuable to ancient music players like the group St Martins In The Fields, because they can reproduce the same sounds as he heard in the music of his day ,
and have the same playing techniques. applied to reproduce it now.

Farris, glad you made it through ok.

I would think for tunings two things
1.) pick a legendary multi-chord player and use what he did. For historical correctness.

2.) use the ones that work for the music you like.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 28 September 2004 at 08:24 AM.]

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Thanks David,i remember in the 60s,6string,we tuned to A for standard,and lowered to E,tryed one time the other way,and it wouldn't do it.seems they lowered better than raising.8string i never had,wow i'm excided to try one.Tell i'm getting old huh!!I own 3 SHO-BUDS,and several fender 6string laps.don't really care for all the moderen music!whats wrong with Hanks songs?
farris

Jerry Clardy · From: El Paso, Texas, USA * R.I.P.

.

[This message was edited by Jerry Clardy on 28 September 2004 at 09:32 AM.]

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

David Mason makes some great points. Almost all of this discussion is based on a perception of time and society moving in a linear fashion, where society and instrument values in 200 years will have the same relationship to today that we see looking back to the classicists. Not to be too dark, but there are certainly possibilities that society may readjust in some very radical ways over the next few years. Will we even still have electricity? Let's hope...

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Probaly shouldn't say this,but what about a self playing steel?with the world of electronics that exist today!I never cease to get amazed at what is being built!i see machinery that even adjusts for tool wear,that can self measure even.001thousands,
with the right interest,it could be done!!
instead of playing steel,we could be a computer programer for steel.thats kindda scary isn't it? farris

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic