P/P split between G#-F# lever and B pedal?
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
P/P split between G#-F# lever and B pedal?
On a Push-Pull, what is the best way to split the B-pedal with the knee lever that drops G# toF# on string 6?
The split result should be a G.
I do not have any split screws on the guitar.
I have searched the forum, and found a clever way which involves the A-pedal. But this has limitations.
I also found another post involving drilling an extra hole in the B pedal bellcrank for string 6, but this post was not clear how exactly to set this up.
Any suggestions?
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<FONT face="arial" SIZE=3 COLOR="#003388">Peter den Hartogh</font>
<font face="arial" size=1><B><I>1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;</I></B></font>
<font face="arial" size=2>Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy</font>
The split result should be a G.
I do not have any split screws on the guitar.
I have searched the forum, and found a clever way which involves the A-pedal. But this has limitations.
I also found another post involving drilling an extra hole in the B pedal bellcrank for string 6, but this post was not clear how exactly to set this up.
Any suggestions?
------------------
<FONT face="arial" SIZE=3 COLOR="#003388">Peter den Hartogh</font>
<font face="arial" size=1><B><I>1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;</I></B></font>
<font face="arial" size=2>Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy</font>
- richard burton
- Posts: 3846
- Joined: 23 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Britain
-
- Posts: 865
- Joined: 23 Feb 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Brekstad, NORWAY
A little mechanical surgery on the pullrod for the G#-A would be required to do the trick.
The pullrod needs to be cut in two and routed trough a split finger that moves when the lowering knee-lever is engaged so the pullrod wont pull the raise -finger as far as before.
I have tried toshow how I believe it could be done. The split-finger needs to be connected to a cross-shaft that movescounterclockwise as seen below and hinged at the pivotpoint. The pullrod must be connected to two different points on the finger to allow the pull to stop at a different place (the G note)
Finding out the exact points where the pivotpoint and the pullrod that goes to the raisefinger should be drilled to get the desired effect is another problem. But should be possible to solve. The closer to the pivot point the pullrod is the greater effect it will have on the pullrod that goes to the raise finger.
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
Shown w Bpedal pressed
_
|_|cross-shaft G#-F# lower
|
o <--pivot point
o--------------------Raise rod G#-A
Bpedal----o
pullrod
_
|_|cross-shaft G#-F# lower
\
o <--pivot point
o--------------------Raise rod G#-A
Bpedal----o
pullrod
Shown w Bpedal &
G#-F# lower
</pre></font>
Bengt Erlandsen
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 06 September 2004 at 03:49 PM.]</p></FONT>
The pullrod needs to be cut in two and routed trough a split finger that moves when the lowering knee-lever is engaged so the pullrod wont pull the raise -finger as far as before.
I have tried toshow how I believe it could be done. The split-finger needs to be connected to a cross-shaft that movescounterclockwise as seen below and hinged at the pivotpoint. The pullrod must be connected to two different points on the finger to allow the pull to stop at a different place (the G note)
Finding out the exact points where the pivotpoint and the pullrod that goes to the raisefinger should be drilled to get the desired effect is another problem. But should be possible to solve. The closer to the pivot point the pullrod is the greater effect it will have on the pullrod that goes to the raise finger.
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
Shown w Bpedal pressed
_
|_|cross-shaft G#-F# lower
|
o <--pivot point
o--------------------Raise rod G#-A
Bpedal----o
pullrod
_
|_|cross-shaft G#-F# lower
\
o <--pivot point
o--------------------Raise rod G#-A
Bpedal----o
pullrod
Shown w Bpedal &
G#-F# lower
</pre></font>
Bengt Erlandsen
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 06 September 2004 at 03:49 PM.]</p></FONT>
- Larry Behm
- Posts: 4400
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Mt Angel, Or 97362
I lower string 6 with pedal 1 (G# to F#) and pull it back to G with RKL. Use the pull rod from the B pedal, a collar, and bellcrank tuner. My RKL also lowers the 2nd and 9th. It doesn't effect the 6th string if pedal 1 is not pressed.
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Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7
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Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7
Larry, I am working on that as well. Thanks for the reminder.
Bengt and Bob, Thank you for your suggestions. I am trying to get clarity on your explanations, but I cannot fully understand how to implement your ideas.
Maybe you could explain the connections by using the numbers and letters in this drawing of my existing setup? <small>(Or maybe tell me first what I should change in the drawing, and when I have done the changes, then explain the connections.)</small>
Thanks again for all your trouble.
------------------
<FONT face="arial" SIZE=3 COLOR="#003388">Peter den Hartogh</font>
<font face="arial" size=1><B><I>1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;</I></B></font>
<font face="arial" size=2>Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy</font>
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Peter on 08 September 2004 at 03:09 PM.]</p></FONT>
Bengt and Bob, Thank you for your suggestions. I am trying to get clarity on your explanations, but I cannot fully understand how to implement your ideas.
Maybe you could explain the connections by using the numbers and letters in this drawing of my existing setup? <small>(Or maybe tell me first what I should change in the drawing, and when I have done the changes, then explain the connections.)</small>
Thanks again for all your trouble.
------------------
<FONT face="arial" SIZE=3 COLOR="#003388">Peter den Hartogh</font>
<font face="arial" size=1><B><I>1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;</I></B></font>
<font face="arial" size=2>Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy</font>
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Peter on 08 September 2004 at 03:09 PM.]</p></FONT>
-
- Posts: 865
- Joined: 23 Feb 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Brekstad, NORWAY
- Larry Behm
- Posts: 4400
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Mt Angel, Or 97362
Bengt, thank you so much for your suggestion.
Here is your drawing and explanation.
--------------------------------------
(Copy of Bengt's email)
I edited your drawing to show how I think it can be done. First you need an additional push rod and a couple custom-parts.
How it works, or is supposed to work.
The raise finger on the 3rd string will function as a stop for the B pedal so it will stay in the same position when the lower is engaged. The position of the collar & locknut to the left of D in the diagram will decide which note you get when both the lower and the B pedal is pressed.
It will require some custom parts between the pullrod and the pushrod but it should be not too difficult.
In my mind I can see this working. But I can't try it since I don't have any P/P guitars.
Hopefully you can post the edited drawing on SGF and get some feedback from others if it will work or not.
Sincerely
Bengt Erlandsen
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Peter on 09 September 2004 at 10:55 PM.]</p></FONT>
Here is your drawing and explanation.
--------------------------------------
(Copy of Bengt's email)
I edited your drawing to show how I think it can be done. First you need an additional push rod and a couple custom-parts.
How it works, or is supposed to work.
The raise finger on the 3rd string will function as a stop for the B pedal so it will stay in the same position when the lower is engaged. The position of the collar & locknut to the left of D in the diagram will decide which note you get when both the lower and the B pedal is pressed.
It will require some custom parts between the pullrod and the pushrod but it should be not too difficult.
In my mind I can see this working. But I can't try it since I don't have any P/P guitars.
Hopefully you can post the edited drawing on SGF and get some feedback from others if it will work or not.
Sincerely
Bengt Erlandsen
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Peter on 09 September 2004 at 10:55 PM.]</p></FONT>
Hi Peter,
When a string is lowered (In this case 6th string G# to F#), the lowering finger is pushed back to the lowering adjustment screw. There is slack in the raise rod adjustment that allows the raise finger to fall back with the lowering finger. If you add another raise, using the pull rod (B pedal, G# to A)to a different pedal,(I use RKL, But you can use any pedal or lever that works for you) you can pull the F# to G. You will need a bellcrank, bellcrank tuner, and a collar (Look at the 4th string E to F and E to F# pulls and use the same set up). This will not effect the B pedal! It works only when the string has been lowered.
Note: You do not use the B pedal to get the G.
When a string is lowered (In this case 6th string G# to F#), the lowering finger is pushed back to the lowering adjustment screw. There is slack in the raise rod adjustment that allows the raise finger to fall back with the lowering finger. If you add another raise, using the pull rod (B pedal, G# to A)to a different pedal,(I use RKL, But you can use any pedal or lever that works for you) you can pull the F# to G. You will need a bellcrank, bellcrank tuner, and a collar (Look at the 4th string E to F and E to F# pulls and use the same set up). This will not effect the B pedal! It works only when the string has been lowered.
Note: You do not use the B pedal to get the G.