The Steel Guitar Forum

Hola all!
I have my first live gig on the steel this weekend and will be playing through a borrowed fender twin that will be mic'd. (outside gig) How should I set the knobs?
(and how should I hold my mouth?) <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Brandon Roper on 14 September 2004 at 10:37 PM.]</p></FONT>

Hi Brandon,
I have always used Fender twins and IMHO you have your work cut out to get a bad sound out of them!!
If I play an outside gig I still have the amp fairly loud because I prefer to hear my own sound before the sound engineer gets hold of it, puts it through a "process" then feeds it back through a monitor.
Start with your tones somewhere up the middle
say about 5-6-6 and go and blow them all away!!
I don`t think its that important if you play good or bad, as long as you look up and smile when you have done.....

If it has two 12" speakers, start with bass 10, mid 5, treble 2. If it has a 15" speaker try bass 3, mid 8, treble 3. If it has a channel volume and a master volume, put the channel on 6 and the master on 10. There are old black-face Twins, silver-face Twins, and reissues. They all sound a little different, but the above settings work pretty good as a starting point for any of them.

I'd start at 6, 6, and 6. It's true, you'll have a hard time getting a bad tone. You'll find that all the bass kicks in between 2.5 and 3.5. Mids are more gradual. Treble also kicks in between 3 and 5. If you find that you are using up all the Twin's power, then maybe back off the bass a bit because bass is your power hog. Bright switch off. Master Volume on 10 if you got one.

Brad Sarno

I set mine where I don't have to pick it up and move it. It's a pre cbs with a 15" jbl.

T-3, M-2, B-5. I don't use much reverb outdoors because you get that cool natural echo.

Careful with that treble control! On mine if you go over 3 you get a laser beam ice pick coming out of the speaker that can be deadly to anyone in its path. There's a spot on the treble dial that gives a big quantum jump. On my Twin (15" JBL) it occurs between 3 and 4. Otherwise, crank your Twin up and enjoy the big 3-D Fender tube sound.

"I set mine where I don't have to pick it up and move it. It's a pre cbs with a 15" jbl."

ROTFL

I thought that you always wanted to have your mids set lower than Treb and bass. Am I way off?

Actually, how you set the durn thing depends on what kind of sound you want.

My recommendation is to set the mids at 2, the bass at about 8, and then "dial" in your tone using only the treble control (somewhere between 2 and 4 should end up being fine).
My own settings are treble 3, mids 1, and bass 10. (I like a real fat sound...guess that's why bass players hate me!)

Keep in mind that since they're miking you, the amps tone settings are for <u>your</u> benefit only. How it sounds out front will be the sound man's responsibility, and your settings will have little bearing on what he dials in.

With a standard twin I set the
bass on 3
mids on 8 or 9
and treble on 4.

Works for me.

<SMALL>Keep in mind that since they're miking you, the amps tone settings are for your benefit only. How it sounds out front will be the sound man's responsibility, and your settings will have little bearing on what he dials in.</SMALL>

Funny but I have a different experience. I set my tone and volume in order to get the sound just the way I like it and what comes out my amp ends up in the mains.

------------------

Bob
intonation help


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 16 September 2004 at 06:01 AM.]</p></FONT>

Brandon, you are correct about setting the mids low for steel with most guitar amps. However, the Twin family of Fender amps already has a hugh mid scoop built in. You may not need to scoop it much more. With steel the Twin highs can be too piercing, so boosting the bass and cutting the highs can help that. As Donny says, the tone knobs on a Twin interact, so cutting the treble also brings the mids down, even though the mid knob may still be towards the middle.

It makes a big difference whether you are using 12" speakers or a 15". The above applies to the standard 12" speakers. But I have found that, when I use a 15" speaker (which I much prefer), the combination of the speaker's deeper voice and the amp's mid scoop drops the mids too much, and I have to boost them up considerably. Somehow, with a 15" speaker, setting the mid fairly high brings out the low mids and upper lows, and really makes a steel sound gorgeous to me. But it's all personal preference.

I keep getting this comical mental picture in my head of me sliding the bar way up the neck to hit some high notes and blowing the eyebrows off of everyone in the first row! With so many different opinions and no personal experience w/a twin, I'm getting kinda nervous. Is there anything in particular I should tell the sound engineer?

<u>There is a method to my madness</u>

My tones are usually replete with lots of bass <u>and</u> treble. I could care less about the midrange, and often run my mids at 2 or lower. Here's why...

Tone setting and effects are the antithesis of each other when using a sound man, (and sometimes even when recording). With tone, it's better to have too much (bass and treble) than not enough. If you're sounding bassy (boomy) to the sound man, it's an easy task for him to back off on the lows on his board. If your treble is a bit too sharp, he can likewise back off on the highs, and restore balance by cranking the gain up a little. However, if you haven't enough bass, he won't be able to add much into the mix with his controls. (You can't amplify what isn't there in the first place.) Treble is the same way, if your amp sound is damp and soggy, no amount of his jacking up his highs will restore the clarity and brilliance. In essence you have to have the maximum there (at your amp) for him to work with for him to get you a good sound. The mid ranges (where the human ear is most sensitive, and where speakers are most efficient), just isn't a problem. If you have both bass and treble, you will have mid range, too. If it's not enough, it's just a matter of the sound man lowering both the lows and highs, and bringlng up the gain a little. Voila! Mids out the ying-yang again! Your highs will still be crisp, and the lows will still have some "punch".

Effects, however, are just the opposite. Reverb and echo can always be added into the mix, but they can never be reduced. The strategy here is to use as little reverb or echo as you are comfortable with, and let the sound man add to his taste with his board controls.

As to what to tell the sound man, you'll never really know...because you're not sitting in the audience when you're playing. The best bet is to have someone you trust, someone with a good music ear, out in the audience listening, and then let <u>that</u> person suggest to the sound man how to contour your sound.

The only caveat here is that if you get far too bassy, (easy to do with a sealed cabinet), your low stuff (basically the 3 bottom C6th strings) may wash in to the bassplayer's lines, and he will scowl at you once in awhile! Luckily, a stock Twin with it's open back isn't much competition for bassplayers, nowadays.

My favorite setting for a Twin would be, in a quiet room with the afternoon sun filtering through the drapes. The amp should be set near some kind of house plant. I prefer a fern of some sort. A nice chair can be place across from the amp....
Sorry, I but couldn't help myself
Dave

Moved to "Electronics" section where it belongs