Dobro Primer

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

I have never had cause to post in the No Pedals area.

An interesting opportunity is on the horizon for me. There is a small trio in my area that play folk arrangements of Western Swing with bluegrass instrumentation and have been looking for a dobro player to join them. They would accept a pedal steel player but even to my ears a dobro is the right fit.

I have acceptable right and left technique on pedal steel. .. probably translatable skill to dobro. I have given dobro very little attention and know zilch about it.

I am hoping someone could give me the quick base info on this instrument.

1) what are the brands, models and prices that put a person into Pro tone

2) what are the characteristics that distinguish a good sounding dobro from a bad one.

3) what are common open string tuning alternates. I am hoping there is a 6th tuning.

4) recommendations on youtube links that highlight or showcase dobro Talent.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Mark Eaton · Posted 20 Jun 2016 2:09 am

This will be an extnsive thread, it's late so I will keep it brief for now - for starters check out the website containing excellent videos of one of the best players in the business who is also a fine teacher:

www.mikewitcher.com
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Mark

Stephen Abruzzo · From: Philly, PA

As to a 6th tuning, you could do a version of G6. It's up to you where you put the 6th at. My guess is most would use..Lo-to-hi...G-B-E-G-B-D

As to players, watch YouTube vids of forumite Greg Booth. Outstanding player who often plays in his version of G6. Lo-to-hi...E-B-D-G-B-D

Michael Maddex · From: Northern New Mexico, USA

I would stay away from the conventional dobro 'G B D G B D' tuning. Personally, I find it very limiting. (Of course, many bluegrass fans will point out lots of great bluegrass playing in that tuning. Maybe I find bluegrass pretty limiting, too!) That said, the players referenced above are well worth checking out.

Anyway, although it's not played on a reso, I recommend listening to Bobby Lee's Stella album. He plays a wide variety of music using a versatile 6th like tuning: 'G B D F# A D'.

If don't already have it, you can get the album here:
http://www.steelguitarshopper.com/stella-bobby-lee-cd/

HTH. Have fun on your new musical journey!
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"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

Every time a player brings up the limits of standard dobro G tuning I play **THIS** Laughing

At any rate, tuning aside there are basically two sources of guitars that I recommend:

Imports designed by either Paul Beard (Goldtone) or Tim Scheerhorn (Wechter/Scheerhorn *discontinued*) but set up by a reso knowledgeable luthier.

Hand crafted domestic built guitars by a number of fine builders.

The good imports are available new for $1K +/-. The domestic built guitars start at just below $2K and the sky-is-the-limit

Dobros generally come in 2 sizes, traditional "R" body and contemporary "E"/"L" depending on your builders nomenclature.

Dobro/resos come with a wide variety of internal designs, soundwell, scoop, baffle,open, post..you name it. It's hard to compare apples/oranges. Always best to consult with a builder if you want to go that route.

In the reso world fit & finish should be a concern like any other instrument. In this world set up is king & critical. Some builders have stellar reputations and are widely sought after.

I don't want to ignore either the vintage or OMI, Gibson built guitars in the brief discourse. Dobro history has always been checkered. Play before you buy if you have the chance. These guitars do have their fans. (Gibson built less so) Prepare to have the critical parts replaced and the instruments set up.

That's it in a nut shell. The view from 30,000 ft. as it were.

h

-edit- just a note that there are several sources for 8 string resos. Goldtone makes one for about $1K and Paul Beard makes the incredible MA-8 , designed for Mike Auldridge. Tune it to G6 and have at it!!

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

Youtube is chock full of many great players. Many are bluegrass. Many are "other than". Here are a few names:

The Late Mike Auldridge (still revered)
Jerry Douglas
Rob Ickes
Andy Hall
Josh Swift
Gaven Largent (Oh...so young)
Billy Cardine
Phil Leadbetter (father)
Matt Leadbetter (son)
Michael Whitcher

That should get you started

h

Mark Eaton · Posted 20 Jun 2016 11:04 am

Wish I had a dollar for every time I read or hear "Open G tuning is mainly for bluegrass and it's limited."

It depends on the definition of "limited." If one is thinking about how many different full triads they can get out of a dobro tuning - yeah - Open G gives you all the major triads, but only a handful of minor triads.

As one learns the fretboard in Open G, you can even come up with the occasional gem that isn't very obvious at first: If you bar the first string at the 5th fret and play strings 2,3 & 4 open - you get an inversion of a full Gmaj7. You will add these little building blocks over time.

In most groups with the instrumentation mentioned by Tom Gorr, do you really need to have as many full chords as possible under the sun?

The guitar player and mandolin player (if there is one) can play full chords. The bass player is going to hold down the root. Howard gave the example above of Billy Cardine, a brilliant player and a great guy to boot. I think one can still purchase TAB of some tunes off that gypsy jazz/swing CD that Billy recorded several years ago and as I recall, it's all in low-to-high, GBDGBD.

Need a dominant 7 chord? if the guitar player strums an A maj or A7 and you want to get in the ballpark of the A7 sound on your dobro, go three frets up from the A maj chord on the 2nd fret to the 5th fret, play strings 1 and 2 or 4 & 5 or a combination thereof and you'll get the 5 and flatted 7 of the A7 chord, so with this partial you are playing an "impression" of the A7 chord. It works pretty well.

If you want to use the G6th thing I would recommend a lighter string on the 4th when you crank it up from D to E to get the 6th. The typical dobro set comes with a .036w 4th string and on most instruments it will blow if you try to crank it up to E. Use a .034w or even .032w to be safe, Then you can go back and forth between the D and the E.

Most players I know might occasionally enjoy having the 4th string tuned to E, but even if all you are playing are western swing tunes it's nice to have the option of going back to D. With the E note in the "middle of the intersection"on the 4th string all the time one has to be careful to avoid it - it's not like when playing chordal stuff, every one you are playing is going to have that 6th in there every time.

An important point many leave out when inquiring about purchasing instruments is budget. There isn't a whole lot point in posting an extensive list of boutique luthier resonators if you aren't comfortable with paying more than 500 bucks.

A modern new entry level, but still nice American built squareneck dobro is going to start at ballpark $1300-$1400 then it goes up from there. There are often good deals on used instruments both American made and imported.
_________________
Mark

Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

Another name to add to Howard's list, Tom, is Martin Gross. Here are 70+ videos he's done on youtube and they cover the full range from Honky Tonk Women to Teach Your Children, Santana's Samba Pa Ti, and traditional bluegrass tunes. I happened to stumble across his version of Teach Your Children and I've been a fan ever since.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL733876C57A605D20

L. Bogue Sandberg · From: Chassell, Michigan, USA

Some quick thoughts that may be helpful:

Western swing can be played on a saxophone, one note at a time. It can be played on a GBDGBD tuned dobro, typically with two notes out of the chord, as mentioned by others. Or you play it with a 6th tuning that you, as a pedal steel player, already have some feel for and get 3 or 4 notes of the 6th, 9th, maj7, dom7th, diminished, etc. Hawaiian players started with open tunings and evolved to C6th, E13, B11, etc. as they got â€˜jazzier.â€™ So did Western Swing players. Why?

I'm in a group that does a lot of western swing with bluegrass instrumentation. I play an 8 string tuned to G13, lo->hi FGBDEGBD, and approach it as an acoustic version of the non-pedal electrics typical of western swing bands. Occasionally, I use a 6 or 7 string tuned the same, leaving off the low string(s). I'd have a hard time getting used to the GBEGBD without the inner D and the Booth version wouldn't give me the chord voicings I hear in Western Swing.

Your pedal steel skills can translate to dobro, more or less based on how you approach it. I never was worth a darn as a true bluegrass dobro player in the fast hammer-on, pull-off, open string style. So I migrated to using a bullet bar to get the three string and reverse slants easier. Playing a 6th tuning requires pedal steel style blocking, something I don't notice much with open G. I find pick blocking leaves unwanted induced harmonics off the resonator, so palm blocking is more effective.

Mark Eaton · Posted 21 Jun 2016 8:37 am

Good post Bogue, and I think you hit it on the head in mentioning your 8 string dobro tuned to G13 and approaching it like a western swing 8 string electric steel player.

If you use a 6 string resonator tuned to GBDGBD you can approach it "like a dobro player" which has a different vibe to it but still gets the job done.

Neither approach is necessarily "better" than the other. Tom is talking about joining a 3 piece group to add dobro to make it a 4 piece. It might not be the best thing for that group to lean more toward the full chordal approach, might be too much. Might be a hybrid of the swing sax player and a six dobro gets the job done just fine.

Tom, below is Jimmy Heffernan playing the western swing classic Roly Poly in the key of E, using GBDGBD thing. I have taken workshops and purchased quite a few DVD and downloadable video lessons over the years from Jimmy. He is a master player with a long professional resume' and along with other instruments he is a fine dobroist and pedal steel player who has been in the touring bands of the likes of Brad Paisley and Joe Diffie. He demonstrates the songs in his videos then one can go to his website and get the full lesson along with TAB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeoi0jRZAiw
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Mark

Dave Thier · From: Fairhope, Alabama, USA

I see Howard and Mark have this one covered. Dobro technique has evolved to the extent that it is a different instrument than a pedal or lap steel to a large degree and demands a different mindset and approach. I greatly admire those that can cover both well!

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Thanks for your thoughts and perspectives. Reaaly enjoying the links that have been presented. ..thx all..

Bogue... that 8 string tuning you presented would be very comfortable for me. There are a lot of extended chords with grips I could get along with very easily. Kind of a hybrid of elements of some aspects of a D10 PSG structure and dobro all in one. An interesting partial universal tuning.

I should clarify the instrumentation is currently standup bass, Mando and acoustic... relaxed feel... male \ female duet... old school vibe.

I hear a place for extended chordal melodies during some lead breaks but otherwise simple dyad type fills.

All the used resonators I have seen listed locally are six strings... there is a Richard Deneve which seems to be in good shape. Imagine that 8 strings are very much harder to come across in the local classifieds.

Michael Maddex · From: Northern New Mexico, USA

Yes, a lot of good comments and links here. However, I would urge you to think of what you are about to play not as 'dobro' but rather as 'acoustic steel guitar'. That is just my unsophisticated two cents worth and as usual YMMV.
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"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Pretty much just use instincts to guide my playing.... so playing it as an acoustic steel guitar evolved from the same approach on PSG is most likely what will prevail.

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

Here's my 2 cents. Dobro is a cool instrument and you can play any kind of music on a 6 string Dobro with the standard GBDGBD tuning. From the way that you describe the band that you will be playing with, I think that the Beard/Goldtone 8 string Dobro tuned to G6 (EGBDEGBD) would be a good fit . In the open position you can get all of the inversions of a G Major triad and an Em triad. The G13 tuning is also great and allows for some altered chords without having to slant the bar. Of course, the Beard MA-8 is a better instrument, but will cost a lot more. IMHO, there is a give and take between a 6 string and 8 string. I find it easier to play Bluegrass with a 6 string. I'm sure other players can transcend this, but the E string seems to slow me down. Also,they seem to be a little louder acoustically than an 8 string. Another factor to consider is whether the band you're playing with is using p/u's or mics. If they are using p/u's, IMHO, you could use a lap steel and it would still be a good fit. If its strictly acoustic using nothing but microphones, the Dobro or a Weissenborn is the way to go.

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