The Steel Guitar Forum

Here is the 1967 Spirit song that was allegedly ripped off by Led Zeppelin for the opening section of Stairway to Heaven. The riff plays at 44 seconds into the song:

--click it--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFHLO_2_THg&t=0m44s

The case is in court now. Jimmy Page is on the stand this week. He says he never heard the song until recently and he doesn't remember touring with the band Spirit back in the 60s. Family members of Spirit claim otherwise. There's a lot of money at stake. Led Zepp has made about $400M on that one song. What do you think? a ripoff or no?

A walkdown is copyright infringement? Of all the tunes and licks Zep probably ripped off, I doubt that this is one.

Yeah, and there's a lot more to Stairway than that opening riff. The song has about six sections! I think this is a case of greedy relatives trying to cash in.

Who did Spirit rip off then?

Good point, Mike. Some people say the riff is in the public domain and goes back to the Baroque era. Check this out ---> http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04 ... n-lawsuit/

You can't copyright a chord progression. To my ear, Spirit's version isn't a melody, it's an arpeggiated chord progression with a descending lowest line. There's a lot of music that Zeppelin (and all musicians, really) appropriated but I wouldn't say this one deserves a lawsuit.

Yes, that arpeggiated minor chord/w descending bass line has been featured in other songs, like Johnny River's "Summer Rain".

This reminds me of the lawsuit story that was going around the internet years ago. Supposedly, Metallica was suing a Canadian band for stealing "their interval"... the tri-tone, E5 to Bb5 power chord, called the Devil's Interval. Metallica claimed it was their signature sound. The whole thing was bogus, of course.

Eric Clapton's "Let It Grow" is kind of similar as well.

I've heard 'Stairway' played just like the Grantata sonata. Maybe Spirit should pay him.
Any argument presented here would get the case thrown out, unless the jury agree with Zappa: 'We're Only In It For The Money.'

He says he never heard the song until recently

I don't believe this. British rock bands at that time were always looking up to American acts. Love, Spirit, Byrds, Beach Boys. I think that the idea for the intro to "Pinball Wizzard" came from Love's "Alone Again Or"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcXFy8QTC4

I'm thinking the whole thing's a publicity stunt. They've certainly got us talking about them...

I don't know, there's hundreds of millions of dollars at stake and they're in court now. I think it's just a fishing expedition by greedy relatives of Spirit. It sucks, in my opinion.

Probably right, Doug. I should have done better research before posting. My bad.
http://www.aol.com/article/2014/05/19/l ... /20888140/

Blue Skies- Irving Berlin

Just out of curiosity, does someone like Weird Al Yankovic who makes a living out of writing parody songs have to pay royalties until the end of time to the original composer?

Jeff Garden wrote:Just out of curiosity, does someone like Weird Al Yankovic who makes a living out of writing parody songs have to pay royalties until the end of time to the original composer?

I would hope so.

Ellington- In a Sentimental Mood.

As was mentioned, you can't copyright a chord progression, or descending bass line. Appropriation of harmonic movement is as old as the hills.

Joel, yes, "Blue Skies". And "It Don't Mean a Thing", I believe.

If I were a defendant in a case like this, I'd want a jury of "music experts", not random folks in the community. Imagine people with no knowledge of music deciding whether or not you plagiarized a song...

I don't think the plaintiffs stand a chance, but you never know. If there is a one in a thousand chance at millions, people will take it.

I'm aware of a similar situation of Hotel California supposedly borrowing the chord progression of a Jethro Tull song. Ian Anderson just says if they did, he's flattered by the tribute, but believes that there are only so many progressions and it's bound to happen sometimes.

Oh is this the Led Zeppelin fan club, defending their well earned millionaires?

That would be bigger than the Spirit fan club, but it's hard to root for the guy who's just wrong.

Here's an update with a video report ---> http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/06/ ... s-in-court

The plaintiff is still presenting it's case and Page is still on the stand as a hostile witness. Next week, the defense. It seems that the jury can only compare the sheet music for each song, not the recordings, which seems a little odd.

Doug Beaumier wrote:. It seems that the jury can only compare the sheet music for each song, not the recordings, which seems a little odd.

Not odd, because the plaintiff is the songwriter (songwriter's estate actually), not the record company. The songwriter owns the copyright to the compostion, not to the sound recording. The sound recording is owned by the record company that signed Spirit, or possibly to someone else who has bought the rights to that sound recording sometime since 1968. So the Spirit sound recording is irrelevant. However, the Zep recording would be relevant if it contains copyrighted material.

Apparently the defense in the Blurred Lines case did not make this clear to the jury, which may explain the egregious verdict. Or maybe the jury was just just stupid, or had other motives.

Jeff Garden wrote:Just out of curiosity, does someone like Weird Al Yankovic who makes a living out of writing parody songs have to pay royalties until the end of time to the original composer?

Al gets permission from the original artist, and writers, of the songs he does and list the original writers on all credits so they do get royalties from his versions of the songs. He does this even after the Supreme Court ruled that a parody does not have to have permission or pay royalties to the original under some "fair use" rule.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/92-1292.ZO.html

Doesn't this sound similar? Jimmy Page on "Dazed And Confused":

MUSICIAN: I understand “Dazed and Confused” was originally a song by Jake Holmes. Is that true?
PAGE: [Sourly] I don’t know. I don’t know. [Inhaling] I don’t know about all that.
MUSICIAN: Do you remember the process of writing that song?
PAGE: Well, I did that with the Yardbirds originally…. The Yardbirds were such a good band for a guitarist to play in that I came up with a lot of riffs and ideas out of that, and I employed quite a lot of those in the early Zeppelin stuff.
MUSICIAN: But Jake Holmes, a successful jingle writer in New York, claims on his 1967 record that he wrote the original song.
PAGE: Hmm. Well, I don’t know. I don’t know about that. I’d rather not get into it because I don’t know all the circumstances. What’s he got, The riff or whatever? Because Robert wrote some of the lyrics for that on the album. But he was only listening to…we extended it from the one that we were playing with the Yardbirds.
MUSICIAN: Did you bring it into the Yardbirds?
PAGE: No, I think we played it ’round a sort of melody line or something that Keith [Relf] had. So I don’t know. I haven’t heard Jake Holmes so I don’t know what it’s all about anyway. Usually my riffs are pretty damn original [laughs] What can I say?

Jake Holmes played as their support, as one can read here:
http://turnmeondeadman.com/dazed-and-co ... ke-holmes/