Why don't more players play 12string steels?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 1 May 2016 11:43 pm

And why don't more builders make them?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 May 2016 4:13 am

Look how many folks, especially newbies, are intimidated by ten.
I think Bent, Show Pro, Justice and Voldemort are the only people who don't offer a twelve.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 2 May 2016 6:01 am

Well, after I heard what ol' Buddy and Curls could do with (only?) 10, anything more seemed totally unnecessary.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 May 2016 6:03 am

Mike, I think perception is a lot of the reason. Looks much more impressive to have guitar with 2 necks and 20 strings instead of a single neck with only 12. Not trying to be funny either.

Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 2 May 2016 6:23 am

I played an S-12 for over 30 years before switching back to an S-10, but with no 9th D (using B for 9th and A or G# for 10th). I did it because I rarely used the lower strings and wanted to have more choices of used instruments. But that's just me; I imagine plenty of players would miss those low notes.

Eddie Freeman · Post by **Eddie Freeman** » 2 May 2016 7:01 am

Bruce Derr wrote:I played an S-12 for over 30 years before switching back to an S-10, but with no 9th D (using B for 9th and A or G# for 10th). I did it because I rarely used the lower strings and wanted to have more choices of used instruments. But that's just me; I imagine plenty of players would miss those low notes.

Bruce, that sounds like me, because I did the same thing, and I think it helped my playing( heaven knows I need all the help I can get).
I would like to know how many single neck 10 E9th/B6th stringers there are out there. I could never quite "get it" in the 6th mode on the 12 stringer, and while I don't get as much 6th sounds as I would like, I think I get more with the 10- E9th/B6th set up than I did with the 12-E9th/B6th.

Buell Wisner · Post by **Buell Wisner** » 2 May 2016 7:34 am

I'm only an advanced beginner, but I really wish I had at least had an 11-string with a low E.

The standard ten-string E9 seems to lock me in to the 3rd-8th strings. The D at 9 feels like a barrier to going lower(I need to work on that), but I use that D enough that I don't want to change the tuning.

As an amateur who played standard six-string guitar for 25 years before picking up PSG, what happens on the 9th and 10th strings is not natural to me at all. I think with the 11th and 12th strings, I would have more ability to play rock and blues stuff, which is a part of what I try to do.

Ben Edmonds · Post by **Ben Edmonds** » 2 May 2016 8:36 am

I recently switched from D10 to S12. I tried E9/B6 for a minute and went to B6 which I'm having a blast with.
I have heard that some find too many comprises on a 12 and I'm sure that is true for some and I definitely miss some stuff but I've been able to find that stuff elsewhere so for me it's not much of an issue.
I too think part of it is an aesthetic thing for some.
And some don't want to be playing one of them 12 string woo-woo'sðŸ˜‰

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 2 May 2016 8:42 am

after playing 10 for a long time and sitting down at a 12, it's very awkward finding the 8th string.
i tried several times but always got confused.

i suppose if you try long and hard enough it gets easier.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 2 May 2016 9:11 am

When you play gospel music you can't use a 12 string guitar.
"Give praises to the Lord on an instrument of 10
strings" (Psalms 33:2)

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 2 May 2016 9:22 am

They probably would have loved it, if they could hear it, but I don't think there were too many pedal steel, or electric steels in general back in those days. That question is kind of in the category of 'stupid'!!

Ernie

Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 2 May 2016 9:34 am

Buell Wisner wrote:I'm only an advanced beginner, but I really wish I had at least had an 11-string with a low E.

The standard ten-string E9 seems to lock me in to the 3rd-8th strings. The D at 9 feels like a barrier to going lower(I need to work on that), but I use that D enough that I don't want to change the tuning.

As an amateur who played standard six-string guitar for 25 years before picking up PSG, what happens on the 9th and 10th strings is not natural to me at all. I think with the 11th and 12th strings, I would have more ability to play rock and blues stuff, which is a part of what I try to do.

When I had been playing steel for 4 or 5 years (on an S-10) I ordered a new 12-string. At that time I was using the 9th string D a lot and it never occurred to me to get rid of it. I requested a setup on the new 12 that included the 9th D. It arrived, and after a few months of getting used to having 12 strings, I realized that the D was getting in the way a little. I decided to eliminate it and move the other strings up, but I lowered the 8th E down to D on a KL (the same KL that lowered my 2nd). I found that this "cleaned up" the bottom strings and allowed more C6th-style sounds, thumb strums, etc. and still gave me much of what the open D string used to provide. I eventually found that it also had its own unique benefits, such as sliding into 7th chords on 8, 6 and 5.

Unlike C6, the standard E9 open tuning has many close intervals in its bottom half, and if you find, as I did, that that's not to your liking, taking the open D off is an option worth considering, whether using a 10 or a 12.

As for low notes, I have seen other "D-less" 10-string setups that skip down to a low E on 10, rather than a low G# or A.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 2 May 2016 9:36 am

if you can play like maurice anderson, david wright and jeff newman the 12 string is all you need.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 May 2016 10:09 am

chris ivey wrote:if you can play like maurice anderson, david wright and jeff newman the 12 string is all you need.

Most of us can't. My U12 has sat unused in its case for the last eight years.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 2 May 2016 10:26 am

Then you should give it to me. I liked having 12.

Gordon Hartin · Post by **Gordon Hartin** » 2 May 2016 10:57 am

I switched to an Ext E9 about 3 years ago. It took a few months of getting used to the extra 2 strings. You find out pretty quick if you were judging your hand position from High to Low or Low to High. I ended up taking a Black Sharpie, and Coloring my 8th string for the first couple months until I got used to it.

Gordon

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 May 2016 12:11 pm

I'm getting another one. Sold my Kline to buy a rare old Shoubud 10, but Man! I miss that low E string! It was my "cello" string.

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 2 May 2016 1:39 pm

I've had a couple of D-12s, and I won't say I'll never own another, but I just didn't use the extra two strings on E9 - It just added to bar noise.

I tried U-12, but it just wasn't my thing.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 2 May 2016 2:06 pm

Could it be that more builders don't make 12-stringers because more people don't play them?
I play a U12 because I like to play both necks and at age 65 time is running out for hauling a D10, but it's a compromise. It's interesting to read the posts from those who have had a toe in the water and found it chilly.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 May 2016 2:08 pm

I wish you could hear John Hughey's stunning version of "I'm Not Lisa!" I hated that song as a single release, but floored when I heard John's version. The beauty of what he does with the two low strings is wonderful! Both using them as roots and low harmony. Neil Zaza was going to hire a string trio until he heard me play the part on my Kline Uni. High string is Violin, middle string, Viola, 11string is Cello. You can't hear me very well, but I'm there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puov93SDltM

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 2 May 2016 2:18 pm

I got a chance about a year ago to buy a like new GFI S12U. I brought it home and set it in the corner. Dec. 2, 2015 I cased my S-10 and put it under the bed. Set up the GFI, New strings and into the unknown I jumped. I find some interesting things to do with the 8-9-10-11 strings. Same notes as 3-4-5-6 an Oct. Lower. The 12 string B gets into the bass guitar's world when playing E9th with band. I changed my 4-8-11 E raise from LKR to RKL. 4-8 lower from LKL to RKR, To allow left leg to B6 pedals. I feel comfortable with them now. Now I got the E9th, The Adventure Begins. Trying to get the B6 and pedals 4-5-6-7 in use. One good came from it, The GfI is lighter to carry than my S10 was.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 May 2016 3:19 pm

Charlie McDonald wrote:Then you should give it to me. I liked having 12.

Make me an offer.

Alan Simon · Post by **Alan Simon** » 2 May 2016 4:14 pm

Not much lessons whether on youtube or otherwise for us newbies for a 12 string so we have no choice but play a 10 string. As someone already stated, if it is, or was, good enough for the greats then it is good enough for little ole me.

Rich Upright · Post by **Rich Upright** » 2 May 2016 5:11 pm

Greater availability of a 10 string guitar, & 10 string accessories, like bars, strings, pickups, etc, and learning material are prolly 1 reason,another might be 'cause they ain't really standardized like E9 chromatic( 10 string, and, tell you da trut...I never heard a 12 string that TO ME sounded good. The E( chromatic tuning is where it's at, AFAIC, and you practically couldn't GIVE me a 12 string.
Besides, someone like me who refuses to buy anything online would have a hard time getting strings & stuff. There is a local music store that orders me 5 sets of strings at a time, or I drive 63 miles to Johnny Bond's music when I need strings, and I've never seen a 12 string set in a music store.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 May 2016 5:22 pm

Rich Upright wrote:...someone like me who refuses to buy anything online would have a hard time getting strings & stuff...

Are you sure Bobby Lee doesn't sell them via the Forum? I buy all my strings from him. (But I don't change them very often.

)

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Why don't more players play 12string steels?

Why don't more players play 12string steels?

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Hum, I think, had they heard a 12 Electric Pedal Steel,

Re: Why don't more players play 12string steels?