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Topic: How much travel on keyless tuners? |
Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 8:20 am |
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It seems like different manufacturers have different distances of adjustment on the keyless mechanism used.
So, keyless players, how much travel do you have on the machines for your axe? If possible, name the brand, and the distance you can adjust by... thanks. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 8:27 am
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I play a keyless Sierra, but I don't understand the question.
------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 9:05 am
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If you are talking about the amount of movement a given keyless finger has on a keyless, I would say Sierra's have between a 1/2" and 3/4" average.
On the ealier Excel's Superb models, pretty much the same. However, the design has been changed recently; and the newer ones have about an inch or slightly more.
I perceive where you might be coming from. It is not uncommon to run out of travel (finger bottoms out) if a string is NOT pretensioned considerably when installing given strings. Probably the biggest offender is the 3rd string.
I have heard more than one keyless player complain of this. This Is why pretensioning is necessary, at least on the higher strings, especially the 3rd. Although with an inch travel, it is unlikely one would run out of travel before bottoming out if the static slack was removed before locking the string down.
There is a nother reason for pretensioning all strings. One of the main reasons for keyless is to get around "Hysterisis". IE, the prevailing tendency on all Keyed PSG's where strings raised then lowered (or vicer versa) will not come back to proper pitch.
The keyless pretty much stops this. BUT, if there is a lot of string between the nut roller and the locking screw on a keyless finger, then of course the hysterisis problem can show up on a keyless guitar. So best to keep that distance as short as possible. This requires pretensioning.
carl |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 9:17 am
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Carl, that's exactly what I meant...
sorry b0b if I was vague: having heard that there are occasional problems with insufficient travel, I was curious what sort of range there was over different instruments. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 9:51 am
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This is a characteristic of the tuning mechanism on all keyless guitars that I have seen. The keyless tuners of course do not have infinite adjustment as with a geared post. I don't have any experience with other brands, but I have owned a Sierra 14 and a Lamar keyless D10. The Lamar pulled the threaded mechanism directly at 90º and had more adjustment than the Sierra which pushed a lever. The hi G# always required pre-tensioning when installing a new string on the Sierra, but I was able to use a .012 on it if I wanted to. I could get by without pre-tensioning on the Lamar if I used a .011 but not w/a .012.
[This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 30 July 2004 at 11:02 AM.] |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 8:14 pm
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On my Schild it's about 22 mm or 7/8".
Hans |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 8:46 pm
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| Williams keyless guitars have all the travel one would need. The trick is to have the block as far forward toward the nut as possible when you anchor the string, prior to pulling it to pitch. I still have about 2 inches to spare once the string is pulled up to pitch. I don't know about other brands though I have heard the Sierra doesn't have enough room (the block is too short). |
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Glenn Taylor
From:
Denver, CO, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2004 9:37 am
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| The tuners on the guitars I've built have a half inch of travel. They are part of the changer finger on the left side of the guitar. I don't usually use any tools to pre-stretch the strings, but sometimes I pull string 3 with pliers before clamping it. A little less than a quarter inch pulls it to pitch. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2004 1:08 pm
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hmmmmm.
I just installed a brand new set to try out my new gauged rollers. I pulled my third string as tight as I could with a pair of pliers. After bringing the string up to pitch, there is about 3/4" between the nut roller and the adjustment bar.
Also, in observing a number of keyless guitars I have noticed a consistently large distance between the nut rollers and the adjustment levers especially on the third string.
Several examples:
carl |
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Winnie Winston
From:
Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Aug 2004 1:47 am
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I have a Kline.
My third string has the most travel. I put the string on with the keyless full up against the roller nut.
Pull the string through as tight as I can manage with my bare fingers, wrap it around the lock screw, and lock it down.
To pull the 3rd string up to pitch needs about 1/4".
JW |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2004 5:52 am
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As measured:
Top photo=3/4"+
Middle photo=5/8"+
Bottom photo=Don't know, it was sent to me. A steak dinner says it is further than 1/4"
Top and middle photos; the string was pulled as tight as this human could pull them with pliers first; before tuning.
Looks like we got some very strong players out there 
carl |
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Bill Stafford
From:
Gulfport,Ms. USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2004 4:55 am
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I use an aluminum rod about 3/4" diameter (round) and about three inches long. It has a hold in the center (through the diameter). Insert your string through the hole, take a few wraps and then you can pull the string to tension without too much effort. Be careful with the 011 though as you can pull it too tight and break this string. You will develop a "feeling" after you gain experience. Just ensure that the tuner slot is at the high end, close to the top of the roller nut before you insert the string. The shorter the string length after it leaves the roller nut, the better the string sounds and the longer it will last. (My new model EXCEL Superb model is over a year old now and it still has the same 011 that came from the factory.) This new changer and keyless tuning mechanism is the best ever designed for pedal steels. Check it out in St. Louis..
thanks,
Bill Stafford |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2004 6:53 am
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Absolutely Bill.
carl |
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Bill Stafford
From:
Gulfport,Ms. USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2004 11:30 am
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PS: Typo correction- change "...hold" to "hole" as hole in the ground....
Thanks Carl...
Bill Stafford |
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