The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm plugging away at my MSA Classic D12 resurrection. As I told you all before, I bought it minus legs, pedals and pedal rack. I was able to buy 4 pedals and I have the rack just about finished. For now, I'm just going to put it together with the Extended E9 neck, so I have plenty of extra cranks and rods.
Since I've never played a PSG, it will be assembled with the standard Emmons setup with 3x4 for 'ease' of learning from the popular courses. But, I've also mounted the 4th pedal and would like some opinions as to what would be a good use of it, even if I don't make use of it right away.
Thanks!

I like putting the newish 1st and 2nd string raise (to G# and E, respectively) on a zero pedal, to the left of the A pedal. That way you can also split it with the 2nd string drop, like in this video here.
https://youtu.be/XUykptG6DBQ

My zero pedal lowers the G# strings to G.

If it was possible, I also have the pedal raise the same strings to Bb, with a change lock to toggle between the raises and lowers.

Thank you for the replies, guys.
Lane, that sounds good. Would I be at a disadvantage if I put it on the 4th pedal position instead of 0 (I already have them mounted in positions 1-4)? I can move it if it would be better on 0.

You could, I suppose, bounce off the C pedal for the phrase from He Didn't Have to Be,so P4P4 could easily work. I guess the combination of C+4 could do something interesting or advantageous.
I'd personally just move C to 4, B to 3,A to 2.
I did that to my Zum one morning when I made the zero pedal. I moved the others over to leave 1 open

Mike Perlowin wrote:My zero pedal lowers the G# strings to G.

This is what I recommend to beginners. It makes minor chords and 7ths very easy to find.

My wait is almost over for my new steel and I've been considering a zero pedal that lowers the 3rd string to G and raises 5 to A. It's the 'Norm Hamlet' pedal that Norm uses to get a lot of the Mooney licks.

B0b or Mike, was wondering if you had an opinion on this change or is lowering both strings to G more preferable?

My thoughts are that I'll be able to get the G on the 5th string from the tune able split.

Mark, the best advise I can give you is to try it and see what happens, If raising one string and lowering the other works for you, keep it. If you decide you'd rather have something else, change it.

Deane, just to put the cat among the pigeons, if I had a double neck guitar and only four pedals, while I was waiting on the other four instead of worrying about a 4th pedal on the E9 I'd settle for A & B and hook up 5 & 6 on the C neck.

But that would be me - maybe that's not such a priority for you...

Mike Perlowin wrote:Mark, the best advise I can give you is to try it and see what happens, If raising one string and lowering the other works for you, keep it. If you decide you'd rather have something else, change it.

I have an Emmons now, when I typed up that question I forgot that the steel I'm getting is easy to change up. I think that's perfect advice.

b0b wrote:

Mike Perlowin wrote:My zero pedal lowers the G# strings to G.

This is what I recommend to beginners. It makes minor chords and 7ths very easy to find.

also opens up some minor/maj7 and mi6 voicings.
that's what i have on my zero pedal, and find a lot of use in it.
j

Thank you everyone.

Hi folks,

I can understand why it (dropping the G#s to G) would make a minor chord or a diminished chord with the A pedal, but how can you get the seventh chords?


.................Pat

Pat Chong wrote:I can understand why it (dropping the G#s to G) would make a minor chord or a diminished chord with the A pedal, but how can you get the seventh chords?

The bass player and/or rhythm guitar are playing the root of the 7th chord. It's a A7th at the nut: C# E G C# E G. No root A tone. You're right - it's also a diminished triad.

I'd put something on the 0 pedal other than the G#'s to G lower. Franklin pedal, perhaps, or my choice, 6th string to A#.

In my opinion, the G#'s to G is a great change, but far better to have it on a knee lever than on the zero pedal. All kinds of moves between it and other combinations and positions using the A & B pedals can then be done smoothly, instead of the "hiccup" from moving the foot from one pair of pedals (0 and A) to the other (A and B).

Examples:

Pedals A & B, release B and engage G lowers to drop the root to the seventh (with or without half step at G#) (this is the equivalent of releasing the A pedal from the A + F position);

Pedals A & B, slide up two frets, release both pedals and engage G lowers to move from major to relative minor--the equivalent of pressing the A pedal from the no-pedals position;

G lowers only for 2 minor, release lever and press A & B for 5 chord.

Hi again,

b0b, You're right! I never thought of it that way, although (with only 3 fingers a-pickin') we make all kinds of chords missing some note(s).

And Brint: I tried your examples (with 2 feet working the 0, A and B pedals) and you are right too. A smooth glide from I to I7, which can't be done if G#->G is on a pedal. However, it does make a nice chordal transition from I to IV (I, V, I7, IV) having to move from AB, none, 0A then IV.......

Thanks for the info.....Yet another way to do the same thing on other frets! Cool!

.....................Pat

I go along with Lane and prefer the 1st and 2nd string raise on the floor. Doing this allows you to keep the old 1st string F# to G raise on the RKL along with the 6th string drop/split and makes for a much easier lever with less resistance and seems to balance better as far as lever resistance when using the RKL in combination with the LKR lowering the E's. I have had this pedal in both the "O" and 4th position and found it very easy to use in either, but that's just me. Some love the Franklin change being on this pedal, it's a mater of preference and what suits your style of playing.

Hi Deane, Give it hell on your MSA. I`d love to see you playing it at the next meeting June 12th.

I like the G#->F# lower so much that it's on P1, left of my 'B' pedal, with a split that gives a G natural, making a I minor.

Charlie McDonald wrote:I like the G#->F# lower so much that it's on P1, left of my 'B' pedal, with a split that gives a G natural, making a I minor.

Most people have that on a knee lever. It's actually the most common 4th lever on newer steels.

manny escobar wrote:Hi Deane, Give it hell on your MSA. I`d love to see you playing it at the next meeting June 12th.

Thanks Manny. It has stiff competition with some other projects, some of which are closely managed by my wife, LOL. I plan to be there though. If the steel makes it, I'd love to have you and the other members try it out for your impressions.

b0b wrote:

Charlie McDonald wrote:I like the G#->F# lower so much that it's on P1, left of my 'B' pedal, with a split that gives a G natural, making a I minor.

Most people have that on a knee lever. It's actually the most common 4th lever on newer steels.

I had that for a while, and eventually removed it. I found that there was very little that I could do with it that that I could mot also accomplish by using the bar and the other pedals.

It makes things easier, but in my opinion, does not add significantly to the possibilities inherent in the E9 tuning.

Please note that I said significantly. It does add some possibilities, just not enough to justify it instead of the B-Bh or F# to G (natural)changes.

As I said earlier, my zero pedal lowers the G# strings to G.

My zero pedal is also the one I use the least. 98% of the time I use the standard A B and C pedals. I suggest that everybody learn what can be done with them first, and worry about extra changes on a pedal or knee lever after you've mastered the basics.