6 string pedal steels?

Tommi Toijonen · Post by **Tommi Toijonen** » 28 Feb 2016 9:09 am

Just wondering... Since I hardly ever use other strings than the ones that form that nice E major chord (with maj 7th added as 2nd string) in my Carter Starter... has anyone made six string pedal steels?

I think I could do quite anything I wanted with strings:

1: D#
2: G#
3: E
4: B
5: G#
6: E

And pedals
A: 4th + 1 step
B: 5th and 2nd + 1/2 step
C: 3rd and 4th + 1 step
LKR: 3rd and 6th + 1/2 step
LKL: 3rd and 6th - 1/2 step
RKL: 4th - 1/2 step
RKR: 1st - 1/2 step

I could do majors, minors, 7ths, dims, maj7s, augs etc. easily, but with considerably less near misses. Is this idea stupid?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 28 Feb 2016 9:19 am

Jimmie Hudson and Jerry Fessenden both make them.

One of out fellow forumites, Bill Hatcher, plays 6 string pedal steel. He posted a video that has some terrific playing.

Bill's virtuosity notwithstanding, my opinion is that you're better off with a regular 10 or 12 string steel, and that you learn the real instrument, not a 6 stringer.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 28 Feb 2016 9:28 am

There's a steel for sale on the forum right now that could be your dream instrument:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=297598

Jimmie Hudson certainly makes 2 pedal 3 lever 6 string guitars, he may be able to make what you want if you contact him.

Jerry Fessenden makes the 6 shooter but it only has 2 pedals. You can add a knee lever but the changer is limited to single raises only so 3x4 is probably out of the question.

WBS guitars in Germany might be a good bet as they are geographically a lot closer to you.

http://www.pedalsteelguitars.de/

Another, cheaper option would be to convert a 10 stringer and just string up the middle 6.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Feb 2016 9:59 am

mike

i'm at a loss as to why you don't consider a six shooter a "real instrument "
i agree there are some limitations but i think these are "real pedal steels " in every way
same strings 3-8 same A & B pedals
same E knees ,
i wish i had started on one of these
and then moved up to the 10 strings

i think we should reexamine the way we classify pedal steels because to me the six shooter should be the real
"student model"
guitars such as the stage one should be called a "amateur" model
and the full featured guitars called the "pro models " (which they already are )

the reason i say this is this : the six shooter gives a beginner a chance to get familiar with the instrument
and really drilling down on what can be done using the basics
guitars such as the stage one are more for the more advanced "home player "
an of course the pro models are just that "pro models" made for the working musician
and made to withstand the abuse that goes with it

Tommi Toijonen · Post by **Tommi Toijonen** » 28 Feb 2016 12:17 pm

Good ideas, thank you all!

I think I seriously consider learning the extra strings as well - I just don't seem to to use those too much. I've sometimes visited the WBS site, but the 6 stringer didn't catch my attention.

I'm not too familiar with the history of the pedal steel guitar, but aren't the pedals quite a new invention to an instrument that was developed from lap steel? At first you had 6 strings, then eight, then 10 and finally a console with two necks - the goal was to get more varied chords easier with all those strings.

Then came the great idea of pedals for getting those funky chords easily. Now, what if that idea would have emerged 20 years earlier? Would there be steel guitars with that many strings?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 28 Feb 2016 12:31 pm

Calvin, a steel with only 6 strings does not have the same capacity to play scales and melodic passages as a 10 or 12 string does. It's not just about playing chords and licks, it's about playing music.

All instruments are tools, whose purpose is to be used to make music. Why have a tool that can only do part of the job? Would you want a Telecaster with only 3 frets? Or a trumpet with only one valve? Or, a piano with only white keys>? Or for that matter, a car that didn't have a reverse gear?

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Feb 2016 12:38 pm

there are some on here that will say that if they had 20 pedals and 16 knees
they would use them all constantly
but we really don't use more than the A & B pedals and the E lower and E raise regularly
WE DO USE the OTHER PEDALS & KNEES just not as often
the proof is in the pedals and levers themselves

look at any pedal steel in existence
the wear pattern's on the pedals and knee levers
says it all

Mike
i never suggested a six shooter was equal to a 10 string but they are very playable
and make a really good starting point

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 28 Feb 2016 1:02 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:Calvin, a steel with only 6 strings does not have the same capacity to play scales and melodic passages as a 10 or 12 string does. It's not just about playing chords and licks, it's about playing music.

All instruments are tools, whose purpose is to be used to make music. Why have a tool that can only do part of the job?

So would you concede that a 6 string lap steel is a valid instrument that can be used to make music?

If so, then surely if you add pedals and levers to it, you can potentially make even more/better music?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Feb 2016 1:06 pm

Indeed it's a viable instrument in its own right. But it's a pretty poor "stepping stone" to a 10 string E9th guitar.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Feb 2016 1:26 pm

lane, what took you so long ....lol
i disagree

many of us on this forum started on a 3 & 1

seldom ever used more than strings 3-8 in the early stages
we learned the basic's and moved up

i think its an inexpensive way to get a beginner plucking strings ( and thats our goal isn't it )
as the cost of even a stage one can be prohibitive for many wannabes

a lot CAN be learned on a six shooter such as
bar control , the fret board , the grips ,and blocking techniques just to name a few

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 28 Feb 2016 2:17 pm

Lane Gray wrote:Indeed it's a viable instrument in its own right. But it's a pretty poor "stepping stone" to a 10 string E9th guitar.

Lane,

I was merely challenging Mike's implication that a 6 string pedal steel isn't a "proper" instrument.

But, since you mention it, surely a "cut down" version of an instrument where every single thing you learn on it can then be applied to the "full" version is pretty much the definition of "stepping stone"?

I'm pretty sure the original poster didn't have any intention or expectation of using the 6 as a "stepping stone", since he said he already has a 10 string and doesn't really get on with it and that's the reason he is interested in the six stringer.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Feb 2016 2:50 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE9WzdHhYEs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q91h88b2TOo

sure sounds like a pedal steel to me !!!

Derrick Unger · Post by **Derrick Unger** » 28 Feb 2016 3:11 pm

I'm picking up a 6 string pedal steel Tuesday from Dave Ball..he is a forum member..This guitar was made by Bob Overfelt..it is very similar to the Jimmy Hudson 6 string and I'm sure he could set you up..his number is 815-939-9530...I know that Jimmy Hudson could fix you up also, he makes a great guitar..his number is 704-986-6481. I do great on a Open E 6 string lap steel..I just got about 3 weeks ago a MSA 10 string pedal steel and am strugging a little..my goal is to settle in on 6 string pedal with open E tuning instead of E9...Zane King has some youtube videos with a 6 string Jackson..you might want to look at.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 28 Feb 2016 4:25 pm

Check out this these 2 tracks,

http://www.perlowinmusic.com/DebussyAft ... faFaun.mp3

and

http://pedalsteelmusic.com/?p=502

and this blues-rock video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkSnoeTWR4I

None of these could have been played on a 6 string steel. My 12 string steel is the tool that allows me to do all that.

Now everybody else probably has a different musical vision as me, but that's not the issue here. The issue is whether or not a 6 string steel is capable doing the same things a 10 or 12 can. I say it can not. And it certainly can't do the kinds of things that are shown in these links.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 28 Feb 2016 4:40 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:The issue is whether or not a 6 string steel is capable doing the same things a 10 or 12 can.

If that was the issue, nobody would be discussing it. Of course a 6 string steel can't do the same things as a 10 or 12 stringer - nobody would argue with that statement.

I think the issue (which you raised) is whether or not the 6 string steel can be used as a serious instrument?

The issue which the original poster raised was can anyone advise him on getting a six stringer? - because he decided (after trying a 10 stringer) that was what he wanted.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Feb 2016 4:47 pm

And to that question: yeah, knock yerself out. Choose the right copedent and have fun. But tips on playing your tuning will be thin on the ground.

Derrick Unger · Post by **Derrick Unger** » 28 Feb 2016 4:52 pm

I replied earlier to the original post and I am actually getting a 6 string pedal steel in a couple days..I agree that a 6 string cannot do what a 10 string can..that should be obvious..and I also have a 10 string..on which I am having a little trouble getting onto..I do fantastic on a 6 string lap steel so I am hoping that a 6 string will be my niche..I believe the original poster said he was having a little trouble hitting unwanted strings so maybe he is hoping what I am..a little less might be better than a little more at this stage or point???

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Feb 2016 5:24 pm

Derrick Unger wrote:I replied earlier to the original post and I am actually getting a 6 string pedal steel in a couple days..I agree that a 6 string cannot do what a 10 string can..that should be obvious..and I also have a 10 string..on which I am having a little trouble getting onto..I do fantastic on a 6 string lap steel so I am hoping that a 6 string will be my niche..I believe the original poster said he was having a little trouble hitting unwanted strings so maybe he is hoping what I am..a little less might be better than a little more at this stage or point???

my point exactly

for the 1st few months a newbe IS going to have problems with the basic's
and a six shooter
gives them less to have to deal with
and everything they learn can later be applied on a 10 string
( hell i spent the 1st six months trying to keep my picks from getting tangled in all those strings )
back then working with a six string 2 x 2 would have been much easier

our goal here on the forum should be to get the wantabee player plucking strings and then he can make his own decision how to advance

Derrick Unger · Post by **Derrick Unger** » 28 Feb 2016 5:36 pm

Amen Calvin....for what its worth I'll let you know whether it works out in the real world or not...if not I guess I will hang on to my 10 string..I still want to get this 6 string I'm getting to a open E tuning instead of e9...will be interesting

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Feb 2016 5:45 pm

Derrick

i think your going to be very happy and
soon you will be off to the races with your 10 string
keep us posted !!!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Feb 2016 6:21 pm

Derrick, when one of my FB friends said he had a 6-Shooter tuned to E, I shot a couple videos showing a little of what one can do with B E G# B E G#, 2 pedals and no knees.
Here's country style: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8YAvEXw4-I
And a clean blues: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHSRmNColRA

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 28 Feb 2016 6:22 pm

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Personally, I would find 6 strings to be woefully inadequate and severely limiting.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Feb 2016 6:30 pm

Indeed. I'd find it a frustrating tool. But if it's the tool the guy wants, there's a lot left to be done with it.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Feb 2016 9:24 pm

i think you both forget our humble beginnings!!!

i can remember when i had to look down at my feet
to see which pedal i was stepping on
i can remember having to look for each string before i picked it
i can remember not remembering what chord was on what fret
i can remember trying to control a volume pedal that had a mind of its own
i can remember trying to figure out how to read a tab
i can remember trying to remember which strings the A pedal controlled
i can remember feeling inferior every time i asked a question on the forum
i can remember trying to just hang on to that slippery bar
its easy for us to forget the simple things each and every one of us once struggled with

trust me in the early stages of learning this thing simple = better
none of us should be here for our egos , we should be here to help the guy/gal that has never
sat his or her butt down at a pedal steel get started and get past those first hard steps ,
it shouldn't matter to us if they are playing a cigar box with string's and a couple of pedals
our goal should be to help make this as easy as we can
no one in their right mind would say that a six shooter with a 2 x2 is the equal of a Mullen 3 x 5
but you can LEARN the basic's on one without all the clutter THEN when they feel ready move up to more advanced guitar

Stephen Williams · Post by **Stephen Williams** » 28 Feb 2016 9:38 pm

As the man said about jazz......"what a waste of good technique" ha ha

point is music can be simple and fulfilling, doesn't have to be complex unless you want it to be. Which of course some do. But if you want to play simple stuff on a 6 string go for it. Neil young's solo on Cinnamon girl is just one note!!