Ease vs. Versatility? (C6th)

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

When you work out a lick or melody on C6th steel, do you automatically find the place where it lays out most easily or force yourself to play it in different positions with more bar movement? It seem to me as thought the easiest position is almost always the most "musical" and less strained sounding, but when I try stuff the hard way I come up with better connecting bits and transitions. Of course, with the darn 1 step/ 1 1/2 step/ 2 step interval stuff happening between the strings, sometimes I just get gummed up completely.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I try to think where the chord for the note is best found, not just the note itself.

But sometimes when a chord is not needed the note that is closest or follows the melodic line movement is best.

Enjoying the bar and Debahish casstte you sent.

Dave Ristrim · From: Whites Creek, TN

Yeah, that's a tough one to answer because the right answer keeps changing as you play in different positions on he neck. After playing for about 10 years I realized I was playing mostly in a vertical position going across the strings in a couple fret area. All the notes were there so it seemed correct to me. Later I watched some kick butt players and they seemed to be moving all over the neck in a more horizontal (up and down the neck) way. I found out they were using the same notes found in my little pocket areas a few frets away and using them to connect to the next pocket area. Scales, licks and such are found all over the fretboard. Buddy Emmons had an article (I believe in one of the Steel Guitar mags Bob has for sale) about playing in pockets. Very eye opening for me!
Dave Ristrim

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Well I am certainly no authority on the topic ..but..

what I have been doing is pretty much what Dave #2 stated..very similar to what I do on the 6 string..I attempt to play the same thing or close to it out of as many chord positions that I can..for me that is at least 3 for both Instruments, going more than 3 greatly increases the math which I was never good at any way..from there I listen to the tonality and sort of choose the one that has what appears top be the better sounding ( tone) and then consider the chord position that I want to end up at.

My biggest issue is consistent single string finger picking patterns..I'm real sloppy..My current goal is achieve Half Sloppy !

My approach lately has been to view the lower neck in the E mode. ..I have been studying as many E position and relative chord positions and using them daily in practice. Considering the band I play with plays a few SRV and standard progression Blues tunes in E..this has really worked out well..

Looking at the fretboard in an "E" ( not Buddy ) format has dramtically opened up the options for me. As Dave R. mentions the "pockets" seem to just pop right out in front of you.

Chords and positions first..phrases after that..

This really and is a great tuning..and has been layed out by a very brilliant person..or persons..some of whom we have actually come to know a little !

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 20 May 2004 at 04:40 AM.]

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 20 May 2004 at 04:41 AM.]

Franklin · Posted 20 May 2004 4:55 am

The more places you learn to play every chord, scale, and lick the easier it is to play music.

Paul

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

It depends what you mean by "melodic". if by "melodic" you mean diatonic, then it's true that the "easiest" positions are the most diatonic, that is, they have readily available notes from the scale of the chord across all the strings. For example, assume you have a basic copedent plus a knee lever thar raises the 4th string A->Bb. The "easiest" positions for a C7 chord are the 7th fret pedal 6, 10th fret pedal 5, and 12th (or open) fret with the A-Bb knee lever. Those three postions are diatonic to a C7 chord. HOWEVER, you can also get a C7 chord at frets 1,3,4,5,6 and 9. These positions get you many additional options for chord inversions and extensions. They are not easy in the sense of being as intuitive as frets 7,10, and 12, but will provide many options for adding tension and color to your playing.

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I often find the position that is most tonally pleasing to my ear.
I like the sound of the unwound strings better than the wound strings for melody line playing (the upper six strings on S12U).

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

David Doggett · Posted 21 May 2004 7:46 am

Tony, what do you mean looking at the lower neck in the "E" format? Do you mean using the 6th string as the root?

Gary Lee Gimble · From: Fredericksburg, VA.

David, (not that I'm over qualified to offer any input) I will have to parallel what Pete offered. If your melody line is a single note or part of a triad, a convenient location with minimal bar movement may not be your answer. What you hear should determine where the melody will fall and of course do what Paul said, time permitting.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Dave..( a little long here)

yes and no..I look at the 4th fret position as my HOME position..not necessarily the 6 string root..

I have been working with ( and it is actually working) with chord positions for the I,IV,V with the 4th fret as my root /reference and using combinations with the 4th pedal, 5th pedal 8th pedal..whatever.. and mixing it up quite a bit..

E on the 4th,A on the open, B on the 2nd, E on the 7th ,A on the 7th, B on the 9th , E on the 11th..etc...

I do use the 7th string 4th fret ( E ) as a home position probably most often.

After playing guitar for pretty much my whole life it is apparent that we( guitar dudes) have been brain washed into the E tuning mode. Playing different chord structures or phrases on the 6 string is a no brainer..auto-pilot..we don't say ok where's C, or F or Bb..we just stinkin do it..So my isolated theory which works for me is ..heck if it works on the guitar theres no reason it shouldn't be applied to the Steel with a little practice and a common way of looking at things. I look at this tuning the exact same way every time I sit down behind the Guitar now..instead of a complex thing with a real low note on the 10th string ! I look at it as an E tuning with a few moore notes under the root..Kinda like a guitar player who likes to bring the low E to a D now and then..same twisted logic..

The C6th has always been ( still is ) viewed as very intimidating.. and for me too..but why ? I think because we are all accustomed to playing in an E tuning with a couple of pedals that bring you around the horn..Well the C6th after some sit down and reason/logic is the same..no..make that better.

I have been playing the old Standard "Honky Tonk"..the old Bill Justice tune in E. I have been using that as my re-education to the Lower Ten. We all learned that on the 6 string like an hour after we got one..I have been playing it just like the record, the solo's the chords the vamp etc..I take the vamp off of the second fret, 10th string, using the 4th pedal on the first part of the phrase just as an FYI.

Last night our excellent guitar player had an issue during an SRV tune ( Pride and Joy)( in E) and needed to step off the stage, so he looked at me..and I said ok..Hony Tonk here we come..even played a chord solo using my mix it up method of madness..a bit more meter than than what I had been playing..but the world did not stop..

A simple blues solo in and around the 9th fret, which is the 4th position to the open E and everyone was happy..

Next time I do this I might even tune the Steel !

Don't put me in the catagory with those that actually know what they are doing..put me in the " Man he's dangerous now" catagory !

I can relate to things in E without thinking about it..so why learn an entire new language?, although it's not really a big deal, C or E..it's just a reference position.

The way I see it is that those of us that started on the E 9th ( me and the other 20,000) got off to a wrong start by looking to the Pedals to play the music.. Those that started playing with an open tuning such as the C6th use pedals and knee combo's to enhance music..add to it if you will..I think this is why so many of us are stuck in the Mash Pedal A and Mash Pedal B society and view the C6th as territory that we cannot conquer.

I can say this with certainty..My E 9th playing has changed dramtically after spending time on the C6th using my self serving logic..I am even looking at the E9th opportunities totally differently now as well.

C6th..don't leave home without it !

happy saturday

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 22 May 2004 at 11:03 AM.]

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Tony,

You discovered something that I always believed. If you can't copy the icons styles and techniques, then figure out how to make it work for you. In the end, for all practical purposes, there are no books, no teachers, and no guides on how to develop music on steel guitar. Once you get past the basic E9 "pedal A,B" sound, you have to figure out for yourself how to dig what you need out of the tunings, be it rock, blues, jazz, funk, classical, sight-reading, etc. etc. And if you have the time and verve to develop concepts of your own that reflect your musical thinking, then you get a big payoff. Unfortunately, for every 300 or so guitarists in the world, there is only one steel player, so it's (unfairly perhaps) up to the player to find his way through the wilderness. But that's the choice we made. Regards .. Jeff

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

David Doggett · Posted 22 May 2004 10:16 am

Oh, okay, Tony, now I get what you're saying. B6 on a uni works out very well for this. On E9 I sort of consider the key of G at the 3rd fret to be a good common key for learning, and probably the most comfortable key for most steelers. Well, it turns out on the B6 uni, the key of E is centered on the 3rd fret. So the no-pedal fret positions are laid out the same as for the key of G on E9 - very convenient. Starting from that I can now do some sixth neck stuff. I play it like a lap steel, except for a knee lever that is the same as the usual pedal 6. Someday I'll start learning what the rest of those pedals are for. But for now, I think learning it like a lap steel is good for me. It's pretty amazing how much you can do on the sixth neck like that.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 22 May 2004 at 11:19 AM.]

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

To span a step and a half can be difficult. However, I try not to avoid difficult things, but rather do what I can when I'm there. A chromatic move (up or down) can facilitate a step and a half move and make it sound great. Chromatics add color anyway (no pun intended). I do not avoid technically challanging patterns/melodies, as it seems there is always a way to play what I want. -My problem seems to be remembering what I have learned.

Travis Bernhardt · From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

I find that I tend to play stuff where I can most easily get the phrasing I'm looking for. Sometimes I'll want the sound of a hammer-on or a pedal slur or a different kind of bar movement (I find that when playing single note lines moving the bar towards my body and to the right is the most natural--other ways I have to work at it).

It can be really hard to get the phrasing one is looking for without trying a bunch of different positions--or even changing to an easier key. For example, trying playing "Salt Creek" (or some similar fiddle tune) on a G tuned dobro in just about any other key than G. Running up and down the scales on a dobro in a closed position is possible--and worth trying--but to get the same crisp sound as with the hammer-ons and pull-offs is VERY hard.

-Travis

[This message was edited by Travis Bernhardt on 22 May 2004 at 02:02 PM.]

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