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Topic: Pedal Problem |
Terry Hickey
From:
Arroyo Grande, California, USA
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Posted 18 May 2004 5:58 pm |
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Hello,
I'm having a strange problem with my Mullen S10. When I depress my A pedal fully, my C pedal moves slightly down causing my 4 and 5 strings to lower slightly. This causes a small but noticeable stay in tune problem. Does anyone have any suggestions. The guitar is about 20 years old and has been in for service in the last year.
Thanks, Terry |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 18 May 2004 9:27 pm
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Hey Terry; it sounds to me Like the rod going to the "A" pedal bell crank is binding with either the bell crank or rod of the "C" pedal bell crank that pulls that same string.....>Look at it upside down when pushing the "A" pedal and see what that rod is doing right there at the "C" pedal pullers(bell cranks).....and you may need to move a bell crank or whatnot....
If that ain't it....then there may be a routing problem of those rods and are causing the pulling of the "C" pedal rods at the changer finger end....
So you have to look at it real close upside down while you push pedal to see what's going on there..
The rods should be perfectly in a straight line from the fingers to the pullers(bell cranks) without binding or rubbing or flexing on anything else.
Good luck.
Ricky |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 19 May 2004 5:22 am
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Ricky's suggestion is good if the strings are raising, but Terry said they are lowering. Since the A pedal also raises the 5th string, I'll assume it's really just the 4th string that's lowering. If that's the case, this sounds like "normal" cabinet drop.
On many/most guitars, the C pedal will drop slightly when the A pedal is pushed, but shouldn't change the pitch of any strings. |
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Terry Hickey
From:
Arroyo Grande, California, USA
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Posted 20 May 2004 8:35 am
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Ricky and Jim,
Thankyou very much for this information; I will make use of it.
Terry |
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Robert Porri
From:
Windsor, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 20 May 2004 12:31 pm
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Not knowing anything about the mechanics, I have noticed my C pedal moving when I press my A sometimes. Your post made me check it out and I found that it is when I hold my F lever (LKL) and press the A pedal that the C pedal moves part way down. This does not seem to affect any pitches and there doesn't seem to be anything binding or doing anything "funny". This may be something obvious to someone who has been playing awhile, but it is a little bit of a mystery to me. I don't know if this figures into what you are seeing at all, but I'd be curious if anyone knows why what I am seeing is happening also.
Bob P. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 May 2004 7:47 pm
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I can't resist this one! Most PSG's have a light-weight return-spring on the puller, in the area of where the pedal-rod hooks in. The tension of this small/light spring is just enough to hold the pedals up and off of the floor, when the strings are removed. In other words, you can sit behind your steel and work the pedals as you normally would if your guitar had the strings on it! This is what makes it possible to judge the amount of free-travel of each pedal before it begins to effect any change in the string-pitch. Otherwise the only thing that holds the pedals up is the tension on the pull-rods, which is lost without strings on the guitar. In a make-shift situation, if you stretch a rubber-band from the puller towards the bridge, just enough to hold the (C)-pedal up; you'll find that even when you push the (F) KL, raising the 4th string and push the (A)-pedal, the (C)-pedal will not drop, if the rubber-band/tension-spring is hooked to a puller on the (C)-pedal. When the (A)-pedal is pushed, the only thing holding the (C)-pedal up is the rod on string #4, unless you have tension springs. If you already have tension-springs on each puller and another unused pedal drops slightly, your tension-spring is too weak! This has nothing to do with ‘so-called’ cabinet-drop! I hope I've made myself clear! I don't claim to know it all, by any means, however; my New {Q & A} Site is at: Http://community.webtv.net/FT8Custom/InquiringMindsWant or just click here If I can answer your question, by E-Mail, I'll even send you a picture to explain, if necessary! Talk to me! “Big John” Bechtel  [This message was edited by John Bechtel on 20 May 2004 at 09:29 PM.] |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 21 May 2004 4:06 am
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| Yes, the C pedal itself dropping is caused by no pedal return spring, but the 4th string dropping in pitch when the A pedal is pushed is cabinet drop. |
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Robert Porri
From:
Windsor, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 21 May 2004 6:21 am
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John,
Although looking under the guitar and trying to figure out what is going on is a new experience for me, I think I can see what you are saying. Tell me if I'm correct if you read this. The F (LKL) lever when not depressed seems to keep some tension on the C Pedal and when the A pedal is pushed the C pedal doesn't move. But when the F lever is pushed, the C pedal moves down slightly when the A pedal is pushed because in effect the tension that kept it from moving is not in place. I didn't try elastic bands, but I noticed when I touched slightly where the rod connects for the C pedal under the cabinet, I could easily keep the C pedal from moving under the circumstances mentioned. The fact that it moves doesn't bother me, I just wondered why it did. If what I just wrote is why, then I think I basically understand your explanation. Either way, thanks.
Bob P. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 21 May 2004 7:05 am
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John and Robert,
You are correct. The pedal return springs have one purpose. IE, to counteract the weight of the pedal and pedal rod. There are manaufacturers who do not use these springs. I feel they should be there.
Also, the springs should be just tight enough in all cases to hold the pedal against the return stop (in the upright position); unless the player is engaging them.
If not, you will often note the reason for this thread. The weight of the pedal and pedal rod CAN slightly activate a change in some cases. Which is not desirable. Thus the reason for the spring.
carl |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 21 May 2004 7:49 am
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If the A pedal and F lever are depressed, then the C pedal will drop slightly because the changer is not holding it up anymore...
how would return springs change that?
Also, I am confused here (not surprisingly, maybe): how could the C pedal cause 4 and 5 to lower? Even if you were pushing it, it would just raise those strings... |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 21 May 2004 8:44 am
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No pedal should drop when other pedals are depressed, IMO. IF the pedal return spring is doing its designed purpose, this will not happen, unless there is a mechanical problem. There are "binding" problems that can cause another pedal to drop when a given pedal is engaged regardless of the spring.
(NOTE: as I stated earlier, there are some PSG's that do not use pedal return springs. In these cases, the above situation can happen. However, I do not believe this was a good idea on the builder's part.)
Other pull rods binding against a bell crank or binding against adjacent rods can cause other pedals to drop, etc. However, if there is no binding, the pedal return springs (NOT the "lowering" springs) should keep all pedals (not engaged) up. This IS their purpose.
I agree on the following statement,
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| "Also, I am confused here (not surprisingly, maybe): how could the C pedal cause 4 and 5 to lower? Even if you were pushing it, it would just raise those strings..." |
I do not understand that either. The A pedal raises the 5th string. How could the C pedal lower it since it also raises it?
Now, if non pulled strings drop in pitch as other strings are raised in pitch, this is in most cases normal; and is due to the old "cabinet drop" problem. In almost every case where this happens the reverse is true also. IE, when strings are lowered, other strings will raise in pitch. I know of NO cure for this latter problem.
carl |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 21 May 2004 9:54 am
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I agree with the above statements. When it comes to a cure for the detuning-problem, my cure was decided years ago. Ignore it if you can or the only other choice is a trade! I just never bothered about cabinet-drop! (In other words, if I ever noticed it, I ignored it!) Honestly, it never was a problem for me! Sorry! “Big John” P.S. I must also admit that I've never owned anything except about (14) Sho–Buds and (3) Franklins, since ’57. I guess Amps don't count, do they?
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“Big John” Bechtel
Franklin PSG D–10 (9 & 
Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Custom
Fender ’65 Reissue Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here
click here
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