The Steel Guitar Forum

Hey there fellas.
I've been reconfiguring my push pull and have been deciding what i want to Put on a fourth pedal. I've been thinking About the Franklin change ( lowering 5 6 & 10 a whole) in the zero position next to a pedal.
Would three whole tone lowers work okay on a push pull? Would it be overly stiff? Anyone using this? Opinions? Thank you

You'd need an awful lot of slack on the raises. Maybe it's worked out ok for somebody. For me it wouldn't be worth messing up the timing of the pedals.

I have a friend with an '85 D-10 push pull, and he has the 6th string lower on a knee with another lower, I forget which string - might be the 2nd string.

Anyway, his 6th lowers just fine to F#, no issues.

Push-Pulls, and also Pull-Release steels, were made when the world was a simpler place, just a couple of strings raised a tone, and maybe dropped a half-tone.

Whilst a Push-Pull could probably do the multiple raise/multiple drop thing, double declutching on a Caterpillar dump truck might be less tiring

Gotcha,
I had my doubts. Thanks for the fast replies.
Any Other Ideas for use of my fourth pedal? Its in pedal 4 position right now. Any cool changes that would work with C pedal. Everythign is standard Emmons Copedent wise.

The late Bryan Adams put that change on a p-p for me and it worked great. The pedal wasn't that stiff at all.
Sure miss my friend Bryan!

I've done this... didn't like the feel. The best solution is to drop 5&10 on the pedal and drop 6 on a knee lever. Splitting the change this way gives you some other cool options

it works fine, Jeff. I have it rodded on my push pull, but disabled it only because I really didn't use it. It does make the throw of the a pedal slightly longer, but not significantly so.

Jeff I'm glad you asked this since I've been thinking about a PP and have been hesitant since I have the Franklin pedal (and use it often!).

So, set up properly, a PP can handle this change no problem?

Not to change subjects, but what about the other so called Franklin change (or whoever you want to attribute it to), the F#-G# and Eb-E on a knee lever?

Mark,

The F#-G# and D#-E works fine on a lever... there are a couple of methods of rodding it. Many folks put it on RKL along with the 6th string full step lower, or something on the 7th string.

Heres where Im at, I have all emmons ABC and 4 knees setup right now. I have a spare pedal 4 not doing anything and a vertical lever thats not doing anything. I would like the franklin change. What could I do with these 2 unused pedal/knees? How would you split it up?
THanks

Even if you separate the Franklin change on multiple pedals/levers you will still have to live with the extra slack on string 5 that others have mentioned, it's two whole steps of travel. This will affect the feel of your 'A' pedal, it will feel more mushy. If that doesn't bother you, go for it. You can always change it back.

The string 6 lower would be a good one to separate and put on the vertical. You could use it to get the faux split you asked about that Richard B described in your other thread too. Simply add a limiting rod and tuner to 6 on the raise side of your 'A' pedal. It will only have an effect when both the knee lever and 'A' pedal are engaged simultaneously.

eveyone can talk all day, but the best way to find out is just set it up and see. you can always change it if you don't like it.

I have put that change on some guitars for players. It does make the raise sloppy. I drop 9 and 10 to C# and A on my LeGrande but couldn't live with it on my Push Pull. If you do it you will also have to add a 1/2 tone tuner for your B to Bb change.

Mike Cass installed this change on my push/pull and it works great. The feel of my A pedal is perfect (as are all of them) and the pedal 4 change is just as smooth on the Emmons as it is on my Franklins.

Jeff,

Is this on your S-12 PP? The single guitars have an inherently stiffer feel because of the shorter changer fingers.... and a couple of other things. What might feel OK on a D-10 or SD-10 won't necessarily work as well on a S-10 or S-12. Would you include your low G# in the change?

what's the difference in length? 1/8 inch?

I have it on my SD10 and it works great with no affect on the 1st pedal. I have a half tuner also because I lower my 5th string. I did reach out to Clem Schmitz to help me on part of the adjustment. It works well

Don't know for sure Chris. I did have a couple of long discussions with Jim Palenscar and Lynn Stafford about this when I first bought my S-12 PP. I really didn't like the feel as compared to my D-10 and couldn't understand why it was different. I believe there was some discussion by Mike Cass on a thread somewhere. There are other factors as well... including where the pedal rods attach to the cross shaft and the pedals. These things have changed over the years, so different eras of PP guitars will have different feel. And 1/8" at a critical point can make a big difference.

1/4" difference, same as the difference in the height between the D10 top decks so the tuner holes in the end plate line up.