The REAL challenge..............
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- Ray Montee
- Posts: 9506
- Joined: 7 Jul 1999 12:01 am
- Location: Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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The REAL challenge..............
How many of you enter the gig with NO sheet music tab or any other type of crutch?
When I go to play, I have not a care in the world as to what songs 'might' be played; what keys will be used most, etc.
When I start to play, I'm referencing the 'melody' to some degree and what comes out of the amp is just by chance.
To me, it's always exciting to see how it turns out at the end of the song.
When I go to play, I have not a care in the world as to what songs 'might' be played; what keys will be used most, etc.
When I start to play, I'm referencing the 'melody' to some degree and what comes out of the amp is just by chance.
To me, it's always exciting to see how it turns out at the end of the song.
The Real Challenge
Ray, we're from the same era when we played a lot and with different people on a lot of different gigs. Who had time to rehearse unless it was for a radio or a T.V. show? I remember very distinctly of many times going in to record and just given the key, try things with unfamiliar musicians and record it. If that didn't work for the artist; start all over again.
- Alan Tanner
- Posts: 461
- Joined: 25 Nov 2007 8:13 am
- Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Try playing at an open mike venue. Singers (loosely used) think just because you play an instrument that you should know every toon ever written, along with the timing, the kick off, the melody line, the breaks, and the key to said toon. Even if they, the so called "singers" themselves don't have a frikking clue about what it is they are trying to do. Chart.....hahhahaahahahahahaha
- Rich Upright
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- Joined: 30 Sep 2014 9:55 am
- Location: Florida, USA
Same here. I see chord charts now and then, or lyric sheets with chords (often wrong - thanks to the internet), but most often a guitar player expects me to be able to read his hands.Rich Upright wrote:Never once used a tab or sheet music for any gig or recording session.
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- Bob Hoffnar
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Not using charts or written music only works if you are playing music you know already or if the music you are playing is within a genre that you have a complete familiarity with.
I personally dread musicians that refuse or are unable to read charts. Bass players that are unsure if the solo is the turnaround or chorus is a typical stage problem. The clashing of altered notes when players are unsure of what sub chords are being used sounds pretty crappy too.
In sessions you better be pretty freakin awesome if you think you can catch every subtle nuance of a tune and play it perfect without having heard it before.
I play hundreds of gigs with different pop bands and singer songwriters. I often don't have time to even listen to the music before I am on stage or studio. If I can't follow a number chart ,lead sheet or manuscript I don't work.
If you only play in one style no matter what else is going on then charts ar no problem. You get hired to play the same thing you always play. That works for many players. I personally am not interested in only playing music I know already .
I personally dread musicians that refuse or are unable to read charts. Bass players that are unsure if the solo is the turnaround or chorus is a typical stage problem. The clashing of altered notes when players are unsure of what sub chords are being used sounds pretty crappy too.
In sessions you better be pretty freakin awesome if you think you can catch every subtle nuance of a tune and play it perfect without having heard it before.
I play hundreds of gigs with different pop bands and singer songwriters. I often don't have time to even listen to the music before I am on stage or studio. If I can't follow a number chart ,lead sheet or manuscript I don't work.
If you only play in one style no matter what else is going on then charts ar no problem. You get hired to play the same thing you always play. That works for many players. I personally am not interested in only playing music I know already .
Bob
- Scott Duckworth
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I play mostly gospel music. Some that I do as solos with a track I chart out. If I'm playing along with a choir and hymnbook, hopefully someone tells me what key, as I don't use the hymnbook. If they forget to tell me what key, I use the "Flatt & Scruggs" method... "y'all start and I'll slide 'till I git thar."
Occasionally I'll back a soloist using a track that doesn't have steel guitar, then its "playing in the spirit".
Occasionally I'll back a soloist using a track that doesn't have steel guitar, then its "playing in the spirit".
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- Steve Green
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I HATE this!! Happens all the time! A guitarist or bassist will come in with a sheet they've printed off the internet (with blatantly wrong chords), and swear the rest of the band is wrong (even though the band's been playing that song for years) because everyone knows "they can't put it on the internet if it's not right".b0b wrote:. . . or lyric sheets with chords (often wrong - thanks to the internet), . . .
- Christopher Woitach
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I would never think of sheet music as a crutch. The music I get called for requires the ability to read on many of the gigs. I know zillions of tunes in many genres, and have a good ear, but if I'm on a jazz gig I'm expected to know, either from memory or from charts, exactly what chord goes where, and not fool around and guess.
It's nice when I'm the leader and I notice the sidemen have brought music stands and either books or, more common all the time, iPads. If I hear a musician fumbling around trying to figure out the tune, I would never hire them again.
I guess all of this depends on the kind of music you're playing.
It's nice when I'm the leader and I notice the sidemen have brought music stands and either books or, more common all the time, iPads. If I hear a musician fumbling around trying to figure out the tune, I would never hire them again.
I guess all of this depends on the kind of music you're playing.
I'm starting to use a Kindle for my chord charts now. Cheaper than an iPad, and you can see it in bright sunlight.
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- Roger Rettig
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I've been blessed with a quick 'ear' and it's served me well. But in a professional working environment I'm often required to read notation and, frankly, I couldn't take the job without the ability to do so. I agree with Bob Hoffnar.
In fact, 90% of my work calls for this skill. I'm not as fast a reader as I'd like to be (how I wish I'd worked harder at sight-reading when I was young and could more easily assimilate new disciplines) but my quick ear won't help me in a pit-orchestra on the first day of rehearsal. I'd look a real chump.
In fact, 90% of my work calls for this skill. I'm not as fast a reader as I'd like to be (how I wish I'd worked harder at sight-reading when I was young and could more easily assimilate new disciplines) but my quick ear won't help me in a pit-orchestra on the first day of rehearsal. I'd look a real chump.
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10
(8+9: 'Day' pedals) Williams SD-12 (D13th: 8+6), Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and several old Martins.
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(8+9: 'Day' pedals) Williams SD-12 (D13th: 8+6), Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and several old Martins.
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- Jerry Overstreet
- Posts: 12622
- Joined: 11 Jul 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Louisville Ky
What Bob H. said. It's hard to play music you don't know. If you are able to rehearse new songs with the bands you'll be playing them with, that's fine...but in today's music, even new country, there are so many twists and turns no one could possibly be able to crystal ball them.
Many of us just get calls to do the same old country songs people have been doing for years....not too bad there, but more complicated stuff, pop, big band, jazz things, you'd better have a way to communicate changes if you're trying to do it off the cuff.
OTOH, if you just want to learn a few songs with some like minded folks just to have fun, nothing wrong with that either. I guess what you want out of it will determine what you put into it. ala learning to read charts, numbers etc.
Many of us just get calls to do the same old country songs people have been doing for years....not too bad there, but more complicated stuff, pop, big band, jazz things, you'd better have a way to communicate changes if you're trying to do it off the cuff.
OTOH, if you just want to learn a few songs with some like minded folks just to have fun, nothing wrong with that either. I guess what you want out of it will determine what you put into it. ala learning to read charts, numbers etc.
- Richard Sinkler
- Posts: 17067
- Joined: 15 Aug 1998 12:01 am
- Location: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
In my area, I and most musicians/bands, use iPads or something similar for set lists. Many of us, as we grow older, can't see set lists that are printed out and sit on the floor. I have to print it with a bold font at 72pt for me to see it. As it is, I have to use 60 on my iPad. There is nothing more unprofessional than having the band leader yell out what song is next, and others yelling back "what key?". That's garage band level in my books. Well, maybe a step above garage band. The closest unprofessional thing to that is having the vocalists have to read lyrics from an iPad type device, or from a big ugly binder full of song lyrics perched on a music stand in front of them. For heaven sakes, if you've done a song more than ten times, you should have it down. But I do hear older singers say their memory isn't what it used to be.
Some times if I really don't know a song, I'll write out a condensed version of a chord chart consisting of only one run through a verse, chorus, solo, bridge, under the name on the set list. But I don't believe in having chord charts, unless playing gigs that you need to read.
Some times if I really don't know a song, I'll write out a condensed version of a chord chart consisting of only one run through a verse, chorus, solo, bridge, under the name on the set list. But I don't believe in having chord charts, unless playing gigs that you need to read.
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 53 years and still counting.
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Depends on the type of music.
Country - lots of gigs back in the day with no charts, no set list, little or no rehearsal. As a steel or lead guitar player with well-trained ears I could always rely on the bass player or rhythm guitar to play the (hopefully) right chords. & if they didn't play the right chords you have to go with them anyway. Apart from "Knock three times," you generally didn't have to worry about being tight on shots. In the bar band circuits I played in the early 1980s, I used to think if you needed to rehearse you weren't good enough to play. That could be why I didn't get past the bar band circuit ...
Rock / pop /alt country - almost always there is a set list and/or rehearsal but not charts. The only time I can remember using charts for a rock type thing was doing a pit band for Grease at a university production and backing up some singer with a bunch of arrangements for big band. Sometimes it is just a matter of talking down a set list before you go on stage and knowing where you are going to jam it out, sometimes it is a matter of trying to nail an arrangement like the record.
Jazz - I can't remember ever playing a jazz gig where the band didn't have charts, maybe a couple of jam sessions / parties where it was pure ear/memory.
Country - lots of gigs back in the day with no charts, no set list, little or no rehearsal. As a steel or lead guitar player with well-trained ears I could always rely on the bass player or rhythm guitar to play the (hopefully) right chords. & if they didn't play the right chords you have to go with them anyway. Apart from "Knock three times," you generally didn't have to worry about being tight on shots. In the bar band circuits I played in the early 1980s, I used to think if you needed to rehearse you weren't good enough to play. That could be why I didn't get past the bar band circuit ...
Rock / pop /alt country - almost always there is a set list and/or rehearsal but not charts. The only time I can remember using charts for a rock type thing was doing a pit band for Grease at a university production and backing up some singer with a bunch of arrangements for big band. Sometimes it is just a matter of talking down a set list before you go on stage and knowing where you are going to jam it out, sometimes it is a matter of trying to nail an arrangement like the record.
Jazz - I can't remember ever playing a jazz gig where the band didn't have charts, maybe a couple of jam sessions / parties where it was pure ear/memory.
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Or if you're Pig Robbins... How he is able to do sessions all day, creating parts on unfinished songs and remembering all the little twists and turns is beyond my understanding.Bob Hoffnar wrote:Not using charts or written music only works if you are playing music you know already or if the music you are playing is within a genre that you have a complete familiarity with.
- Richard Sinkler
- Posts: 17067
- Joined: 15 Aug 1998 12:01 am
- Location: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
I just want to add something about the singers having an iPad with the lyrics. The band I played with last night, the lead singer does "Don't Rock The Jukebox". Even with the words right in front of him, he still does the second verse (with "there ain't nothing like a steel guitar") where the first verse is supposed to be. The really funny thing is, he still does the 2nd verse where it should be. So, he only sings that 1 verse through the whole song. And he throws in 3 solos, making the song excessively long, and torture hearing the same verse over and over.
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 53 years and still counting.
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- Frank James Pracher
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