Universal Tunings

Hal Higgins · From: Denham Springs, LA

I've been a D-10 player all of my playing years, and I love the D-10, however, just recently I spent a little time at Bill Staffords in Gulfport, MS. I think everyone knows "Mr. Smooth" and the instrument that he plays, a universal tuning 14 string Excel Superb. While visiting with him he had just gotten his new Excel (a beautiful axe) back from the company. He had made some design changes and wanted them added to his guitar. Well, I was curious as to how the universal tuning would compare to just an E 9th tuning and sat down behind Bills guitar, and I must say how surprised I was that even I could get around fairly well on this axe. The point I guess I want to make with all this is that I believe that it wouldn't take very long at all for a standard e9th player to be able to get around quite quickly on a universal tuning guitar if he/she would desire to.......yes there are some differences, but I don't believe it would take me very long to excel on a universal tuning guitar should I want to switch over. What's your take on this? HAL

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Be Blessed........HAL
'85 Emmons LeGrande D-10,(8 & 6) Hilton Vol. Pedal, BJS Birthstone bar, Rack w/Evans Pre-amp, Lexicon MPX100; (2)1501-4 BW's in custom built cabs by T.A. Gibson, & a Peavey DPC 1000 Power Amp.

Roger Kelly · From: Bristol,Tennessee

Hal, I can certainly agree with your view on the Universal Steel Guitar. I have played D-10's for quite a long time and believe that the Universal Tuning is the logical evolution of the Pedal Steel. I believe that Maurice Anderson has been right on his assessment of the Universal Tuning. Whether you play a U-12 or U-14 will be a personal choice, as will be whether you play any particular guitar, D-10, S10, or whatever. I have been playing a U-12 for 6 or 7 months now and certainly realize the differences, but like you I believe the differences are not all that much. It will take some time to get used to, but for me, I am willing to put in the time since I am retired, and have more time now.
I have a 2001 Carter U-12 and it is one of the best Guitars I have ever owned. It has the Jeff Newman set-up, which I like.
I am not trying to make an argument for or aginst the Universal Tuning, just that it is my choice right now.

[This message was edited by Roger Kelly on 08 February 2004 at 07:15 AM.]

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I played a D-10 for 8yrs, then went to a U-12. The transition is just a temporary hangup. The brain says, "I don't know about this?" Then your body says, "&^%$# you brain, we're going for it!" The brain cries and throws a tantrum for a few weeks, but finally gives in. Then the brain likes it.
Brains are funny like that!
Dennis

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I pondered for over 30 yrs whether I could adapt from a D-10 to a Universal. Fortunately for me, the second I sat down to it, it was like it was made for me. I did have one or two days of missed pedals and strings. But within one week no problems whatsoever, and there hasn't been since. I would never go back to a D-10.

I will say without reservation, that IF Buddy Emmons' first pedal steel guitar had been a universal, MOST PSG's today would be a universal.

carl

tom anderson · From: leawood, ks., usa

I also recently switched to a U-12 Excel from a D-10 & can't imagine why I would ever want a double-neck again. Don Curtis has a great study book on playing C-6 on an E-9 neck that is a wonderful help in switching.

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

I went from a T8 stringmaster straight to a Universal. SU12. Glad I did. One neck, all the changes that I could want. Since I never played an E9 PSG, I don't wonder about it. Just play it. Country, western swing, jazz, blues.
The thread mentions tunings. I use a Bb6/Eb9 with 5 and 8. It could just as easily be B6/E9. No big deal to me.

Hope this helps.

Hal Higgins · From: Denham Springs, LA

Thanks for the responses so far.....my plans are (at this time anyway) to stay with my D-10....but I did want to make mention to those who do play the D-10 guitar that had you toyed with idea of changing to a Universal tuning, that there really wouldn't be a great deal to learn over. I sat down at Bill Staffords Excel 14 string and found myself doing things just as easy on it as on my D-10.

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Be Blessed........HAL
'85 Emmons LeGrande D-10,(8 & 6) Hilton Vol. Pedal, BJS Birthstone bar, Rack w/Evans Pre-amp, Lexicon MPX100; (2)1501-4 BW's in custom built cabs by T.A. Gibson, & a Peavey DPC 1000 Power Amp.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I started off on a U-12 (after a short initial period on a borrowed Maverick) and have been playing it almost since day one.

Aside from the B6 tuning, The U-12 has all sorts of capacities in E9, on the bass strings. I drop my 11th string (low E) to C# on the E to F knee lever, so I can get a bass note for the C# chord. I also drop the string on a seperate lever so I can get the note for the C# minor chord, and I lower the low B string to A on the A lever for a realy big fat A chord with the pedals down.

These changers not only allow me to play big fat chords, they also allow me to play solos that can extend into the lower register. (Those of you who've attended steel jams with with me have heard me do it.)

When I sit down at a 10 string, I feel like the bottom half of the guitar is missing.

Wes Hamshaw · From: Pacific City, Oregon * R.I.P.

For what it's worth, I played a Excel U-12 for several years and found the biggest problem was
the spacing between the strings - too close!
At times a finger pick would "hang up" on the
string behind the intended string - bad sound.
I would urge you to check the string spacing on
any new guitar before getting one..........Wes

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Wes - I believe that most of the older 12-string Excels had the strings placed very close to each other. A 10-string bar would easily cover all 12 strings. How old is your guitar?

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Mike-I agree with you on your post. Putting that C# on the low string on F pedal, and the low B to A on the 12 strings is fantastic with pedals down...right on...!

Wess-True the string spacing is close on most guitars, I have had. And I have had the same trouble.

However, I asked Reece about that 35 years ago when I got my first MSA and He felt the closer spacing was better for speed players. That is not me.

Most of the guitars now are 11/32. My old Sho-Bud professionals were a little wider and felt a lot more comfortable for me.

I wish I could find a new light weight guitar with the wider spacing.

Otherwise , I'll have to start practicing right hand technique again...LOL ..al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Wes Hamshaw · From: Pacific City, Oregon * R.I.P.

My U-12 Excel would be about 18 to 20 years old
by now. I finally sold it a couple of years ago and heard no complaints from the buyer. As
you say, a regular 10 string bar could easily
cover all 12 strings.........Wes

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

I use a 14 string E9/B6/A6/13 series tuning structure. A bad habit that I picked up from Bill Stafford some years back. My string 12 is a C# so the complete A6 structure is there with P1P2. Lots more sweep chords with the D as an option. I would have trouble trying to play the standard E9 setup.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

I'm certainly glad to see Ed P. posting on this topic. Ed's website, Bill Stafford's kindness in furnishing me the book he did for Sierra on the subject, and Maurice Anderson's personal tutoring have been most helpful in assisting me in establishing lesson planning and practical projects for my students. I only teach the "Universal Method" now and have absolutely nothing against the Double players. Nearly all the "D" players I ever met put me in the shade playing, but I've found the Universal way to be the easiest to teach. Funny, also, two of my students who learned the Universal Tuning first are now playing D-10's. I am personally of the opinion it is easier to go from the Universal to the Double rather than the opposite method. Just my .02 Cents worth and you know how inflation killed the penny.

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 14 February 2004 at 03:34 AM.]

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

I haven't been playing that long at all, and when I started , I played a D-10 ...The only use that the C6 neck got was to put "string stripes" on my arms !!...I couldn't get the hang of it to save my life....I then went to a U-12 thinking that if all else failed , I could always tune it to an extended E9 and use it that way...I was determined to play swing as I have always enjoyed listenning to it ...I kept hearing folks talk about Jeff Newman so I got one of his tape on the Universal tuning , and set my U-12 up like in the video, and was SHOCKED at how much practical knowlege was in this video..I must have rewound it 200 times and sat in front of the TV for hours at a time...Well I can tell you this, I 'm not the best player in the world, but I"m playing swing now, and can also see that I can switch back and forth from the B6 tuning with my RKR held over , to letting it go , and switching over for some riffs on the E9 neck that go right along with the B6 tuning !!....It just makes much more sense to me now...Plus the fact that like the rest of you guy's, I get older every year, and one of the largest complaints I hear on this forum is gear that is too heavy ....Well a U-12 is a lot lighter than a D-10 , so I am going to continue in my learning of the U-12....I feel like a have a lot more control , and also have a better understanding of what I'm playing now ....Now I'm looking for more video's or courses to continue on the Universal tuning...I'm going to get the Don Curtis book for sure ,and read more on the forum to see what else is available that people seem to like ....I'm having a ball with U-12....No offense to the D-10 players at all ...Everybody uses what they need to get them by .....Jim

[This message was edited by James Quackenbush on 14 February 2004 at 07:23 AM.]

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Fred; Interesting, ..I canned the website because I did not think that it was doing anyone any good, plus the forum had had evolved from a "hello how are you" mode to contain a more meaty discussion of music theory and PSG mechanics. Glad that you got some use from it.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Ed, sorry to be so late replying. Personals you know.

Yep, I use your website in "ground school" for my students... It works for us... The looks on their faces when the "Px and Py" pedals are used is very revealing. Hey, I can do it too, it seems to say. I've found the "grips and grabs" necessary to play E9 is a major stumbling block and becomes an attention blocker to learning to play basic steel guitar.

The tunings I'm using allows for any grip or picking to do away with dischords and it makes it easier to teach. As the student advances, we move them into the e-6/9 modes. It just seems easier for them to learn this way. I've never been sold on "standardization" anyway. I play a duo with a fellow that a Double or single neck e9 just wouldn't do for me...The Universal seems to work ok. Thanks for the comeback.

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Fred;

Will I see you in Dallas? Be nice to meet you.

I still have the web site stuff in my files, ..if you want I will see how it would be on a CD and if it works out you can have it.

Edp

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Ed, Pat and I are sure going this year. Cancelled all the contracts for that week and we'll certainly look forward to meeting you there. I'll also bring some of my material and look for any advice from you and others that would improve it....I would love to have a CD of what you had up..I missed out on most of it, but I stay up with what's left. And I have to admit when it comes to music theory, I would make a good brain surgeon....

FRED

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

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