BIG BIG disappointment with my new steel..

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 4:42 pm

Well... Opened up my new Carter and got the shock of my life... I shiny RED steel w/black aprons...that would be fine but I ORDERED an ALL BLACK guitar....Plugged it into the new Peavey Nashville 112 and the shock deepened.. this is easily the absolute WORST sounding pedal steel I have ever heard in my life. My 15 year old kept saying" Your MSA sounds WAYYY better.. and he's right. This guitar is a muddy mess with NO tone that distorts TERRIBLY. It instantly overdrives the preamp on any amp I tried. No high end at all just a low midrange groan. NO top end at all ..NADA..There is a 6 position switch on this GeorgeL pickup and it has coil tap and isolating capabilities,but all the positions except for the out of phase position are useless. The guitar is unplayable in its current state. The pickup was a special order and is not returnable according to ANN at Carter. I agreed to those conditions so I am stuck with it. I DO NOT hold this against Carter Guitars at all. I chose the pickup. I had a similar one in my MSA for probably 20 years and it was fine. This new one tuned a good steel guitar into garbage!UNUSABLE!! The guitar is fine mechanically,but needs to be tweaked big time. Most of the stops are pretty badly out of tune,but I will adjust them. The guitar sustains well also.That should not be a problem. ANN JOHN and BUD... if you read this,PLEASE PLEASE understand this is NOT a knock on your excellent company! The sound of the pickup is not your fault. However sending a red guitar instead of black is another story... I don't quite know how to handle this as yet ,but I do know this guitar cannot go on a stage with this super distorted muddy sound. I thought it was the Nashville 112,but it was every bit as bad through my trusty and very sweet sounding old Fender... I am HEARTSICK over this... .If I weren't a grown man I would cry... bob

Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 30 Jan 2004 4:55 pm

I don't quite know how to handle this as yet

If I were in your shoes, I would have picked up the phone pronto and called them about it first.

*shrugs*

David Deratany · Post by **David Deratany** » 30 Jan 2004 4:59 pm

I recently put one of those pickups on my old MSA and it is fine. They are a b---- to wire, tho, and I'm wondering if maybe it's got a couple of the leads mixed up. You might try measuring the resistance for each of the positions and seeing how the readings compare to the stated values.

Ann Fabian · Post by **Ann Fabian** » 30 Jan 2004 5:03 pm

Bob:

Thank you for your voice mail message an hour or so ago.

As we just mentioned on the voice mail message we left for you, we sent you the burgundy/black Carter in error.

We do truly apologize for that. We are human. too.

Please call John on Monday at 972-288-9100 to talk about which pickup you wish on the black replacement Carter S-10 we are building for you.

We WILL also allow a pickup exchange on this custom-ordered 10-5 George L's pickup with you (as we do with anyone within the first 30 days). However, since you want the color you ordered (which we truly do want to send you), we can just put another pickup in the BLACK Carter we are now building for you.

We have never done this before (switching colors on orders) and again, we truly apologize.

Again, as we mentioned on our voice mail message, you may keep the burgundy/black Carter until the correct black Carter arrives.

As far as the stops being out of adjustment?? John Fabian tested your Carter several times and made sure there was the proper amount of slack in the system to prevent overtuning. John would like to talk with you on Monday regarding this issue, as well.

We look forward to resolving these issues on the telephone with you on Monday.

Ann Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
972-288-9100 tech info

[This message was edited by Ann Fabian on 30 January 2004 at 05:30 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 5:04 pm

.. I have been in touch with them....Carter/World Class Steel Guitars has been 1st class through the whole transaction.. Ann has already called and apologized and they are already building me a black guitar. The color is less of a problem than that pickup! bob

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 5:10 pm

ANN ... No problem.. As always, your service is exemplary. The guitar is solid and well built,as I expected.Top notch mechanicals,fit and finish. If you have any more of those pickups left however,put them in the dumpster! I'll call you and thanks again!!!!! bob

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 30 Jan 2004 5:35 pm

Gee Bob,that sure a shame after the wait and all.But at least Carter is right on it and they seem to be more than willing to make you
happy and set things straight.Wether or not anyone happens to like ther products,you sure cant complain about the customer service!Everyone I know raves about there
company!I havent played many Carters but the ones I have were all Very Nice steels.
Please keep us all posted.BTW,wasnt it kind of neat to see how many people remembered and were interested inyour new guitar?
This sure is a great place isnt' it!!

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Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 30 Jan 2004 5:41 pm

Bob,
I don't mean any offense, but I don't think I'd air this kinda laundry on the forum. Its not good for Carter and its not good for us players either.

I do however wish you all the best in getting this problem resolved. I do empathize with you, for but the grace of God (Bobbe Seymour, and Norm Hamlet) there goes me.

Joe

Bowie Martin · Post by **Bowie Martin** » 30 Jan 2004 6:22 pm

Why is something like this on the forum? We have misunderstandings and mistakes made in all walks of life. Why not work with the company first? At best, this should have been a last resort. I have found the Carter people to be very ethical people to deal with and in a similar situation would have picked up the phone and talked with them rather than assuming they were trying to "do me in." [This message was edited by Bowie Martin on 30 January 2004 at 06:24 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 30 Jan 2004 6:56 pm

(Hmmm... Kind of like what happens when you complain about your hamburger while it's still out of your sight....)

The pickup was a special order and is not returnable according to ANN at Carter. I agreed to those conditions so I am stuck with it. I DO NOT hold this against Carter Guitars at all. I chose the pickup. I had a similar one in my MSA for probably 20 years and it was fine.

The above, and the appearant reversal of this "condition" is a GOOD testament to this "airing of laundry" causing a company to amend it's policies.

Also to this, and other brave souls' use of this Steel Guitar Forum as, regardless of some of its' members being "manufacturers" themselves, a Steel Players' Forum.

I'd like to hear what players think of the guitars We Play, rather than what manufacturers think we should think of them..

My 15 year old kept saying" Your MSA sounds WAYYY better.". and he's right.

Out of the mouths of...

Sooo. I'm kind of hazy here...

Do you Like it?

I wouldn't sell my Sho~Buds for any amount of money. After seeing this exchange, I'd consider it asking to be jinxed..

Wonder how those new MSAs sound... (I always liked my Red Baron...)

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 30 January 2004 at 07:01 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Jan 2004 6:57 pm

I tried out a special limited edition Hamer Standard in a music store in Las Vegas a few years ago, it was #96 of "less than a hundred" built, all solid Korina and about $2500, which isn't much for a steel but not the cheapest 6-string electric guitar.

It sounded like muddy crap, and man do I mean muddy crap. Sounded exactly like the tone control was all the way down. Tried the tone control, aha...didn't work. I bought the guitar with a nice discount. I got it home, took off the cover plate on the back to see the wiring of the pots, guess what...two of the solder lugs on the tone control (one with the capacitor and the other ground) were bent close together and the solder from them had touched and solidified with the two lugs shorted, effictively connecting the tone cap into the circuit at full effectiveness. I unsoldered the two lugs and spread them apart a bit, and I had one of the greatest-sounding and playing humbucker-type solidbodies I've ever owned.

Point, this was a fine, expensive, rare,hand-built guitar as good as you'll find anywhere, and it had a "small mistake" which though small, rendered the guitar as unplayable in that state. It was easily fixed.

Everyone makes mistakes.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 30 January 2004 at 10:42 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 7:09 pm

Bowie.. I certainly did NOT have anything bad to say about Carter...They have been first class and I said so! The guitar IS unworkable in its present condition. If you would read the post, I blamed ME for ordering the wrong pickup. The pickup is NOT right and I said so, It distorts so badly the steel CANNOT be played out as it is and I stated so.. The guitar is fine and well built and I said so. It IS the wrong color and I said so. ANN has been right on it,and I told her she and her company were a first class operation.. Everybody can make mistakes, I understand that. I'll say this so its clear.. THE GUITAR IS FINE!! WELL BUILT and PLAYS NICE..I was VERY unhappy about the color mixup,the Carter company was RIGHT on top.NO problem!! They are correcting the mixup. The pickup is a disaster! NOT Carters fault and I said so. A different one will be on the black guitar.. They are doing me right and I said so... ANYBODY here would have said the guitar was the wrong color if they were in the same situation,whats the big deal?? ..I will NEVER use a certain brand of pickup again though.. thats for sure.... bob

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 30 Jan 2004 7:14 pm

If we're aloud to speak freely about how great our pedal steel's are , and the things that we like about them, than we should darn well be able to talk about things that we DON'T like about our pedal steels too ... That's the beauty of our great country !!...We can talk about how clean our laundry smells, and how bad it smells too !!...It's called Freedom of Speech ..Don't take away what our fore fathers fought so hard to give us !!....

It's unfortunate that Bob has had to deal with this situation..It also shows good character on Carters part by making ammends for their mistake ... Nobody's perfect !!..
Good Luck with you future endevor with Carter Bob, and I hope all goes well for you..Jim

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 30 Jan 2004 7:18 pm

Bob, your post was at 4:42 PM, Ann's was at 5:03, and from the look and sound of things, you didn't give the Carter folks much of a chance, did you? Now, if you had called, and they'd given you a response like,"Het Bob, get lost," then the Forum should hear about it. But Ann's post reads like you left a message--did you actually TALK to Ann, or John, before you posted? If you talked to somebody, then we should hear about it. If you left a message, did you post prematurely? Don't get me wrong, If the Carter folks screwed up your order, and refused to do anything about it, then we should all know. Same if you had ordered a new MSA, Emmons, whatever. But, if 21 minutes after your initial post, Ann was on the Forum, apologizing for and correcting the mistake, then I agree with the others, this didn't belong here! Didn't you say their service was exemplary? I don't know Ann, but I've talked to John a few times, and look forward to seeing him at Saluda, and he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's out to get anybody. Fact, seems like a real nice dude!
Antway, glad you got it straightened out, hope you enjoy your new guitar, and I just wish I had the money for a new Carter!

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 7:30 pm

ERIC... actually,, yes I do like it .. quite a lot as a matter of fact.. It's just not the color I ordered. and the pickup distorts badly....not to mention unbelievably muddy...I think I'm going to like the Carter steel a LOT when I can hear one with a good pickup........

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 30 Jan 2004 7:35 pm

Well, "All's well that ends well", and I hope it does.

Gotta run. Too much work, and not enough "me".

EJL

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 30 Jan 2004 7:42 pm

Bob,
It almost looks as if you have a pick up that failed after a short period of time. I have used the pickup you refer to in several different guitars in the last 20+ years and I never had any problems with that model or any of their pickups.

I feel that if the pickup was as you describe it when it was tested at the factory, John or Bud would have noticed it and contacted you or corrected the situation prior to shipment.
Good luck in your resolution of this.

Bob

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Bob Knight
Sergeant at Arms NTSGA
WWW.NTSGA.COM

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 7:44 pm

Stephen.. This is a steel players forum.. If we can't voice our opinions with other players why bother??.. If you had Just spent $2400 and got a steel the wrong color with a HORRIBLE sound that overdrives the amp BADLY,you would have had some negative things to say also. ANN is first rate,and the company has been GREAT,but the wrong guitar was sent after a six week wait,and it cannot be used as it is terribly muddy and distored under all playing conditions. I voiced my disappointment to guys I thought would understand the way I felt.. I guess I'm just not noble enough. I wonder how many of you guys that are telling what a rotten ##$%&&^*** I am would have had a smile on thier face when they were playing a steel that breaks up anything its played through and was red instead of black... I was VERY unhappy and I voiced it... Carter is making it right and I will be JUST as quick to say how HAPPY I am when the guitar is right.. They are first rate.. this particular pickup/guitar combination is not .. they'll take care of me I'm sure... bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 30 January 2004 at 07:48 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 30 Jan 2004 8:12 pm

Did anybody else notice that Bob is from "Candor"?

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 30 Jan 2004 8:12 pm

Music to my Ears!

Mr. Nasty & Sarcastic

Post by **b0b** » 30 Jan 2004 8:24 pm

What kind of amp is it?

Modern steel pickups are often placed very close to the strings, resulting in a much hotter signal than 6 string guitars or even old pedal steels. I would suggest 1)backing off the first gain stage of the amp, and 2)lowering the pickup (assuming that it's adjustable).

To me, a too-hot pickup isn't necessarily defective; it may just have to be dialed in correctly. Your amp is adjusted for your old MSA, which probably has much weaker pickups.

If you're using an active volume pedal, the problem could be there instead. Is there a trim pot on the input that might need adjusting?

Lastly, please check the guitar's wiring for shorts. Jim Phelps story above is a familiar one. When I first received my Williams, the back neck was dead. Something happened in shipping that shorted out the pickup. I loosened the pickup mounting screws and it sprang back to life. I haven't had a problem with it since.

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<img align=left src="http://picturehost.net/b0b/ManzBob2.jpg" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 

System Administrator

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 8:34 pm

b0b.. it breaks up a Nashville 112 even at low volume..also my Fender...BADLY.. there is an out of phase position on the switch which sounds quite nice.. like an old ZB,but it is too weak to use as the main sound.. Also the sound is just incredibly muddy.. NO highs at all just loud,super muddy and distorted.. even with the Fender bright switch on with the treble on 8 and bass on 3...Isolating coils or tapping them doesn't help at all.. except for the one reverse phase position,EVERY position on the switch is muddy VERY distorted and HORRIBLE sounding.. I have been playing 28 years... many as a pro... I have NEVER heard a steel sound this poorly... ever.. The preamp on either amp overdrives even at practice volume... its GOTTA go bob

Lyle Bradford · Post by **Lyle Bradford** » 30 Jan 2004 9:05 pm

I don't see a slam at Carter Guitars at all here. What i see is the Carter Co.standing behind a product 100% to make things right. I think that it is good for their business for all to see how they treat a person when things go wrong. That shows me a lot of Character!! If they had made things right for me like that I would have been on here telling about the problem and how nice they were to fix it. Says a whole lot about a Carter. I se no harm here at all just a chance where the Carter Co. stood a cut above the problem. Wish all could follow their example. Just my 2 cents worth.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 30 Jan 2004 9:30 pm

Exactly Lyle... I am NOT slamming Carter as a few have said.. YES I was unhappy about them sending a color I didn't order and about the pickup I DID order which is just NO GOOD for some reason [NOT the fault of Carter!!].I probably was PO'd a bit and the "edge" on the post was a tad sharper than I could have made it,but I will say again,Ann was INSTANTLY apologetic over the color messup,and she even told me I could have any pickup Carter uses installed in the next guitar[the BLACK one]. They didn't have to do that..I special ordered the pickup that came with the guitar,and they are NOT obligated to change it.They are paying for the shipping back to Texas... I AM being WELL taken care of and will REMEMBER the way the situation is being handled when it comes time for another steel ,accessories,or advise on buying a steel from a friend.. As a matter of fact, I know a guy with a very very succesful hi end guitar shop that wants to sell student guitars. I instanly told him to keep the Carter Starter steels in his store and he is now looking into becoming a Carter Starter dealer. I have ALWAYS been treated well by these folks. bob

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 30 Jan 2004 9:48 pm

Bob, say what you want to. It's not MY guitar you're slamming around. But, in your first post, you say that Ann told you the pickup was a special order, and you were stuck with it. I've been disappointed with new gear, too, and it's terrible. But (and please forgive me if I'm wrong), it seems like you're talking in circles! Ann won't do anything about my guitar, Carter service is great---This guitar is first-rate mechanically, but it needs a lot of tweaking, don't see how Bud and John let it get out like this----Again, forgive me if I'm wrong, but Carter's gonna replace your guitar, Ann's apologized for the mistake, John wants to talk to you about the tuning issue---And you're 100% CORRECT! If, BUT ONLY IF, a company is out to rip their customers off, then EVERYBODY, including the courts, needs to know about it.
I'm not gona argue with you, Bob, I just hope you get a guitar that suits you.

This is the edit part---Why don't you let us know what John tells you on Monday concerning the stops, tuning, whatever went wrong with your guitar?[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 30 January 2004 at 09:50 PM.]