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Topic: Diminished chords |
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 1:04 pm |
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| Can someone tell me how to get diminished chords on my steel. My old Sho-Bud S10 has no knee levers but I do have 6 pedals so it should be possible. Until recently I had pretty much just been using the 'A', 'B' & 'C' pedals ...occasionally using my 'D' pedal to lower the second string a half tone and the 'E'pedal to lower the two E strings. There was always an 'F' pedal situated at the far left next to my 'A' pedal but it wasn't funtional. I've got that working now and I'm experimenting with new territory. I found how to get augmented chords but the dimished chords have escaped me so far. |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 1:29 pm
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Bill, I'll assume that "F" lever that you now have working raises your 4th and 8th strings a half tone... Assuming that,
G diminished
1---------------------
2---------------------
3---------------------
4------2R-------------
5--2---2---5---8--11--
6--2---2---5---8--11--
7---------------------
8--2R------5R--8R-11R-
9--2-------5---8--11--
10--------------------
As you can see, it repeats every 3 frets.
-John [This message was edited by John Steele on 11 January 2004 at 01:30 PM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 1:36 pm
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John,
I was posting as you posted yours. Out of courtesy to you, I have deleted this post.[This message was edited by C Dixon on 11 January 2004 at 01:38 PM.] |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 2:05 pm
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There is also a very nice diminished voicing on strings 8 7 6 5 4 if one learns to half-pedal the A pedal.
On strings 7 6 5 4 w A+B there is a min7th voicing.
On 7 6 5 4 w half A + B there is a m7b5
and on 7 6 5 4 w half A + B & E's lowered there is the diminshed(m6b5)
Bengt Erlandsen
Am7 Am7b5 Adim
F#----------------
Eb----------------
G#----------------
E----3---3---3L---
B----3A--3a--3a---
G#---3B--3B--3B---
F#---3---3---3----
E-----------(3L)--
D-----------------
B-----------------
C Dm Edim F
F#------------------
Eb------------------
G#------------------
E----3---5---7L--8--
B----3A--5a--7a--8A-
G#---3B--5B--7B--8B-
F#------------------
E-------------------
D-------------------
B-------------------
---3A-- = Full pedal
---3a-- = Half pedal
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 2:29 pm
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If you can access the standard C6 pedals on your guitar and your tuning, "strings 5,6,7, with pedals 5 and 6, will give you a diminished.
www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 13 January 2004 at 03:41 AM.] |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 3:48 pm
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Well thanks everyone, this helps. Gene, I don't have a C6 neck though. My old Sho-Bud is an S10 with 6 floor pedals and no knee levers whatsoever. It's a very unhandy rig to learn on since all instructional material is written assuming you have an instrument with knee levers. Granted, the 6 pedals do allow you to make most of the most common changes. But since you have to use both feet to do this you really need a third foot for the volume pedal.
Does anyone know of an online chord finder specifically for the 10 string E9 pedal steel? I saw a chord finder on Ricky Davis' site but it doesn't seem to have that. [This message was edited by Bill Miller on 11 January 2004 at 03:49 PM.] |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 5:14 pm
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Carl, my courteous friend, I'm going to guess what you were going to point out. Is that OK ? 
In the true sense of the definition, a "diminished chord" only has three tones. the root, flattened third, and flattened fifth.
The four note diminished voicings I posted should technically be called a "diminished 7th", because it also contains the 7th tone of the diminished scale.
However, I've never run into a situation where adding the 7th would compromise the quality of the diminished chord. Because it comes from the whole step/half step diminished scale, it is symmetrical, repeats every 3rd tone.
How'd I do, Carl ? 
-John |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 11 Jan 2004 11:22 pm
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As John S. points out. The dim triad contains a Root, mionor3rd and a flat5.
So to explain
| Quote: |
| how to get diminished chords on my steel |
1: If you play a major triad raise the root to get a dim voicing.
Raising the Root on strings 8 6 5 would of course be the F-lever.
Raising the Root on strings 6 5 4 w A+B you need to raise 6 string another half step. If you don't have a G#-A# available slide up 1 fret and release Apedal halfway(to keep the original note on string 5) and lower the 4th string (to keep the original note on string 4) or play string 2 instead.
If you don't want to halfpedal slide up 1 more fret and release both A+B pedals. The 4th string shold now be lowered a full tone to get the note that was on the 4th string in the A+B position so it has to be played on string 2 lowered a halfstep to D.
Raising the Root on strings 5 4 3 w A+F would require a B-D change on string 5 or one can play the D note on string 2 lowered a halfstep ( which will be a halfstep raise frome the C# when 2nd string is lowered a full step.
2: If you play a minor triad, lower the 5th a halfstep.
To lower the 5th of the minor triad (flat5 or b5) on strings 7 6 5 w A+B, half release the A pedal. If you don't want to half pedal, slide up 1 fret and release both A+B pedals. Note that the 7th string is now a halfstep # so it need to be lowered a halfstep and that means playing it on 8 string w the F-lever whivh gives a note a halfstep lower than the 7th string.
The minor on string 6 5 4 w E's lowered = string 6 5 2. Now lower the 2nd string to D to get the dim voicing.
If you have been using the lower on 2nd string to play dom7th chords in open position
you now know that the top voicing of a dom7th is also a dim triad. Meaning that all other positions for a dim triad will also work as a dom7th.
The last thing about how to get a diminished voicing is that all steps between notes ae equal to the interval between strings 6 & 5 which is a b3rd and repeat it every 3 frets.
Bengt[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 11 January 2004 at 11:31 PM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2004 7:11 am
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John,
No, that was not what I had said. My post was almost identical to yours. So it was only right IMO to delete it.
May Jesus richly bless you dear friend,
carl |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2004 10:31 am
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"The dim triad contains a Root, mionor3rd and a flat5."
You can also think of it as two minor 3rds and the dim7 chord as three minor 3rds or two tritones. The tritones is a more useful view since it shows both of the dominant chords it substitutes for. For instance:
C dim7 is C, Eb, F#, A. The tritone C and F# is a D7 chord, the tritone Eb and A is an F7 chord, so C dim7 substitutes for D7 and F7. |
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Dave Birkett
From:
Oxnard, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2004 7:32 pm
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| Since you don't have knee levers, there's a real easy diminished on strings 5,6 and 8: no pedals and slant the bottom part of your bar on string 8 up a fret. What's the technical term, a half slant? The round part of your bar will play strings 5 and 6 as though you're not even slanting. It sounds tricky but it's easy. |
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gary darr
From:
Somewhere out in Texas
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Posted 12 Jan 2004 7:41 pm
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"Can someone tell me how to get diminished chords on my steel"
I dont know about that but I played a "demolished" chord once when my third string broke.
------------------
Session 500,American standard Strat,Shecter tele,Peavy Classic 50 "wishin I had steel"
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 12 Jan 2004 8:33 pm
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| Quote: |
| The tritone C and F# is a D7 chord, the tritone Eb and A is an F7 chord, so C dim7 substitutes for D7 and F7. |
Good point. Also worth noting is that the C,F# tri-tone is in an Ab7, and the Eb,A tri-tone is in a B7, so the diminished chord subs for 4 (four) dominant 7th chords.
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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2004 11:54 pm
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Yep, which also brings up the why, dominants a tritone apart substiture for each other. Ab7 subs for D7, and B7 subs for F7. Yay tritones.
"Mariiiiiaaaa, I just met a girl named maria....." |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 5:58 am
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| Quite some time ago I wrote a DOS program for the pedal steel called Chorfinder which does what its name implies. You can read a description at and download it for free from http://www.aum.iawf.unibe.ch/port/ma/hh/CHORD.HTM |
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