The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 6:19 am**

I am currently working on a house design for my new home. I'll be fortunate enough to get a dedicated music room this time. Any good ideas on size, design, wiring, etc etc?

Steve

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 6:24 am**

at least one separate circuit from the rest of the house if not more, and at least twelve more outlets than you currently think you need

(pun intended)

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 7:38 am**

keep the lighting on a seperate circuit from the plug circuits you'll be installing.
make sure you have proper earth resitivity
if your area is prone to lightning 20 ohms is fine otherwise 50 ohms will do)this pertains not only to your musik room but to the whole house.
don't forget those security trip devices that turn off at 30ma
(i ferget what these are called in english)

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 7:48 am**

You can never have too many outlets. Also, need to make sure you calculate the floor space needed. We built one years ago thinking that it would be plenty large enough, and it's okay. But, as the years go, you start to accumulate more stuff, things start to get a bit cramped. If you have other instruments, guitars, dobros, and such, there has to be place to store them when not in use. If you are like me, and don't have anywhere to store the cases, then all that starts taking up your floor space. I have a acoustic piano,bass case,2 guitars cases,banjo case,2 steels with cases, fiddle case, computer,etc all taking up some of the available space. Makes it hard when I want to get KC and the Sunshine Band over for a jam session.

Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 8:11 am**

I built a Music/Computer/Media Room a few years ago. It is 12'x 24' with 2 seperate circuits (120VAC) one for the overhead lighting and the other for outlets which I installed every 6 feet along each wall and included some 6 gang outlet strips for my Bose Home Theatre System/video and audio recording area, which I backed up with a Ground Fault Breaker in the Citcuit Box. I used Shag Carpet on all the walls and accoustical tile in a drop ceiling along with Commerical rubber-backed carpet on the floor. I am far from having a sound proof room, but it helps muffle out the sound to other part of the house by using the sound deadening material.
If you are planning on having other pickers in for jams, I would keep the room on the same elevation as your driveway, and use 36" doors for the entrance to the room. Also, I would suggest that you install a small P/A system and have a couple of mikes and stands for any singers who might be going to practice there with you.
How far you want to go with a music room, as you well know, is only limited by your pocket book.
I enjoy mine, but as you may suspect, I would probably make some changes, if I ever built another one.

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 9:35 am**

Arranging things so that you can easily turn on and off recording devices while in playing position is a plus. Keep in mind that computer monitors and other electronic devices can feed into some electric instrument pickups.

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 9:50 am**

I live in the Akron area, home of major power failures! The power here is dirty and noisy. I had to install a Furman isolation transformer to regulate and condition the power. it requires a 220 line. I put in a dedicated 220 line with its' own 10 foot grounding stake. This runs just about everything but the lights. No more strange noises or buzzes! I would suggest that you take this situation into account, and wire in 220 somewhere
JB

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 9:59 am**

Pretty much what everyone else has already said, and make sure you DON'T put any flouresant fixtures in that room !!...If you have room for it, make a seperate vocal booth big enough so that you can put an amp in so that you can play as loud as you want at any hour...Make sure it's well sound proofed with a good window that you can see the mixing board from if you're recording...Make sure you have enough room for storage for not used gear ...You'ld be surprized how fast you will fill up ANY SIZE room you make !!...Book cases also for manuals and other gear ... guitar hooks for the guitars that you're using at any particular time ... Sound proof the room so it's not completely dead, but still has some life in it ... a dead bolt lock if it's going to have an outside entrance, and an alarm also, and update your home owners to cover your gear if you haven't already ...It mounts up very quickly.....Hope this helps...Jim

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 10:20 am**

You might want to consider making the room other than a perfect rectangle. If you eliminate parallel walls and vault your ceiling you get rid of echos (i.e standing waves and acoustic resonance).

Karlis

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 10:22 am**

Hi,
There was a thread about 6 months ago on this topic that I started. You will find it in the archives. (search on my name or the topic)
Best advice I got was to read Basic Home Studio Design by Paul White. The other is Small Budget Recording Studio from Scratch, by Mike Shea. You can order these via Amazon.

Another on line source is on Auralex website, they have a section called "Acoustics 101" all very practical solutions with stuff you can get at the Home Depot. auralex.com

There are live room designs, for great room acoustic sound with a band. Usually suitable for tracking.

There are control room designs, if one plans to do recording, mixing, mastering at a console.

IF you have the chance to plan before the plates and studs start going up, it will be even better. There are some very inexpensive things to do before the subfloor, plates, and studs go up. Ditto for windows and doors.

Hope this helps

Ron

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 12:23 pm**

To expand on a few statements;
.Wiring - don't forget cable, internet (cat5) and phone.
.Wall space! - I've found it's very nice to have a few guitars hanging on the wall at all times. I'm much more apt to play them if I don't have to open the case

.
.Natural light - a sky light or good windows make it nice.

If I were doing it over I'd;
- build a three car garage and have the outboard stall made as big as I could, about 24x36. This gives you some huge dead air between the house and the music space, but keeps it attached to the house for access considerations. Or make the garage really deep and add it on the back.
- Would let you have a vaulted ceiling which would be great for sound, and space to frame non-parallel surfaces (double wall).
- have a big door inside the garage that opens into the music room for unloading your stuff from the car to the room. And a big door outside too so friends could just wheel stuff in from the driveway.
- skylights, wood floors, and built in cabinets and bookshelves for storage.
- I'd have a room or hallway behind the garage with a small wet bar (sink, fridge) with a bathroom - with a back door to the yard so you can come in that way when you're muddy from the garden (wife would love it) Perhaps make it part of a nice big sunny laundry room/mud room. Point being - during jams, practices, people stay out of your house.

This keeps it attached to the house to you dont' have to go outside to a separate building, and on ground level for access considerations.

Read those books on studio design! for information on sound proofing. The secret is mass! Best to use multi layers of sheet rock, special framing techniques (or double walls) and lots of insulation. Covering walls with carpet and foam only cut down on high and mid frequencies and make your room sound like playing in a big pillow. The bass freq. will still be heard thru the walls and your room sounds dead.

have fun - chris www.seldomfed.com

------------------
Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.book-em-danno.com

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 3:05 pm**

I'm in the process of planning my room right now. I thought about doing non-parrell walls, but that's proved to be un-economical. So, plans are to do vaulted cieling with acoustical tiles (probably trac lights on a seperate circuit). On the walls, under the sheet rock will be sound board (2 inch solid fiberboard for mass to prevent sound from escaping), and on two adjoining walls I'm going to use this stuff called tectum.

Tectum, I have recently learned, is like 12 inches of swamp cooler pad compressed into 1 inch and cememted. It's purpose is to soak up sound, preventing the sound from bouncing back and fourth or echoing. It's pretty expensive, $2 per square foot. I got a lot of these ideas from a local contractor that does a lot of sound proofing work for schools, offices, and hospitals. He installed a bunch of tectum in Fresno's new 16,000 seat arena. I migh bypass the soundboard since my "studio" is not attached to the house, and just go with insulation and sheetrock.

The other idea I got from a buddy that went to school for audio engineering was to build mobile partitions, he had a name for them but I forget. Basically, 4 feet wide by 8 feet tall or so, framed with 2x4s, faced with sound board or plywood, and then finished with tectum or carpet, etc. (I'm going to put wheels on them too) The idea is to have a few of them so you could partition off an amp, or singer, or drum kit. Wouldn't be like a sound proof booth but they say that it blocks enough that you can dial in a mix or have another open mic in the room. Cheaper and take up less floor space than booths.

------------------
Ben
Zum D10, NV400, POD, G&L Guitars, etc, etc.

Posted: **18 Dec 2003 3:20 pm**

Make sure you have a good lock on the door and you have the only key..oh..and a cott and a door to the outside would work..and a 'fridge, a sink and a bathroom.....A shower would be good but not totally necessary..A phone, Computor, TV..oh and very important..easy covered access to your new garage..so you don't get wet coming back to your music room after working hard at the office all day..

lets see..I'm sure I can think of more things...

Good Luck

T

Posted: **19 Dec 2003 8:31 am**

...mobile partitions, he had a name for them but I forget[\QUOTE]

Called 'gobos'. They're good for recording everyone live, they aid in reducing leakage into other mics. You prob. don't need them for rehearsals and jams.

I'm not an acoustic engineer. But I did a ton of reading and consulted with some engineers when I built my rooms. So these are suggestions not absolutes.

Sound proofing is really only needed for two reasons,
1) to keep sound out, if ambient noise in your area will affect your recordings or piece of mind, or 2) keep sound in, if you want to keep your neighbors happy Else, don't spend tons of money. Just make the room sound good inside. Unfortunately most of us live next to other people so we spend time on sound proofing. Consider the 80/20 rule in your planning, what are the critical few things you can do ( spend money on) that will give you 80% of what you need for your purpose.?

The bass frequencies have the most energy and are the hardest to stop. You're on the right track engineering a good sound barrier wall. Carpet and foam etc. inside the room to 'deaden sound' is like putting kleenex in front of a firehose for bass freqs. If you can still hear the kids 'boom cars' going buy, they can hear your band!

Perhaps consider two layers of 5/8" sheet rock instead of the sound board or tectum to save money. Depends on your budget of course, but you may want to do some more research and see if the ROI is really there.

Inside the room - careful consideration of material on the walls will help you create a live feel. Perhaps save some money for some diffusers and absorbers (or make your own bass traps, hemholtz resonators etc.)

Also don't forget to budet for good solid core doors! Residential hollow core doors won't work. Or plan a sound lock with two doors. And consider window issues too.

Some good overview info. of the different aspects to consider are here...
http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/rehearsalrooms.html
http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/tloss.htm
http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/help.htm

------------------
Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon" www.book-em-danno.com

[This message was edited by seldomfed on 19 December 2003 at 08:32 AM.]

Posted: **19 Dec 2003 9:24 am**

"Gobo," that's it! Thanks, Chris.

You're right, all this can be very costly, which is why I considering not using sound board. I'm out in the country, so I just have to worry about bugging my wife and baby. But, an extra layer of sheet rock would help, or even plywood (once the price comes back to earth).

I liked the gobo idea because you could clear them out of the way for a jam or rehursal. I do a lot of song writing, and am recording my own demos, so a little separation will help.

Insulating the walls has also been highly recommended to me.

------------------
Ben
Zum D10, NV400, POD, G&L Guitars, etc, etc.

Posted: **19 Dec 2003 9:36 am**

I completed a room back in June. It's fantastic. I had some great help from my wife, an architect buddy and a good contractor. We took one corner of the room and built a stage. It has a two step riser, each riser about 2 ft. deep and 10" high. We installed 6 quad type plugs in the face of the risers. Also, outlets everywhere according to code. We bought some PAR 34 lights and mounted them on a rack from the ceiling (where we installed an outlet for each set of can lights). The room is Blue on Black; U shaped, wet bar, half bath pool table with blue felt, posters that have been dry matted and framed, old framed record albums, pendent lights with cobalt blue Italian Glass, 3 TV's mounted to the walls so that any sporting event can be viewed from anywhere in the room, A nice stereo (all wires pulled prior to drywall going up) with components in a large closet. Black marble around the bar area with cobalt blue glass tile worked in, and a large wall completely mirrored behind the pool table. It's great!

Posted: **19 Dec 2003 9:56 am**

2 layers of plaster board (sheetrock?) work well to reduce sound to the neighboring rooms or parts of the house.

Posted: **19 Dec 2003 10:13 am**

For real soundproofing, leave a space of about 1 1/2 stud width between the wall boards. Use twice as many studs as code, and stagger them so that one wall is attached to one set of studs and not touching the studs that the other wall is attached to. This leaves a dead space between the walls, and prevents the studs from transmitting the sound between the walls. Either that or use concrete block walls.

Don't forget the computer, CD/DVD player, wide screen TV, wet bar and beer fridge.

Posted: **19 Dec 2003 5:32 pm**

Roger,
I was panning on building a practice studio using a kit such as my shed/storage building..But seeing as you already have one..I'll go up to your place instead!!!!!!!!
Bob Hayes[This message was edited by Bob Hayes on 19 December 2003 at 05:33 PM.]

Posted: **19 Dec 2003 8:58 pm**

Steve; try www.primacoustic.com
they seem to have the answers

Posted: **22 Dec 2003 9:00 pm**

Something to think about.

Do you want the instruments and room to sound good on tape?
Or do you want the room to sound good to all who are in it? Playing or listening.

I see a big difference between a recording studio and a good live room for practice rehearsal, jamming.

IMHO of course.

Ron

Posted: **22 Dec 2003 10:51 pm**

Most new houses have a 40 breaker panel, 200 amps. Run as many virgin lines as you can afford. Frig. TV, Micro wave, PC.
Sound room I would have several with surge protectors. All my major items have surge pros.
There is an inexspensive sound board, about $4.00 per sheet, put this on the wall first, and sheet rock over, and insulate the walls inside. I rebuilt my house this way WORKS WELL FOR ME.

ernie

Posted: **23 Dec 2003 12:16 pm**

I went through this and in the process learned a lot about acoustics. The best advice here is Ron Randalls. You can not learn too much about this PRIOR to starting.
Save yourself a ton of money and get it right the first time. As pointed out, there is a big difference between a studio and a room for practicing. Another great source of info is the studio design forum at www.homerecording.com

------------------
God Bless,
Steve Stallings

www.pedalsteeler.com

Posted: **24 Dec 2003 6:47 pm**

Thanks for the kind words, Steve.
I got great advice right here on the Forum and especially from the 2 books that were recommended by Forum members. I have been happy with the results for our rehearsal, practice, tracking room. The recordings we make are "good enough" for fun and demos. If we were to record for a "real" CD, we would go to a studio with isolation booths, drum room, control room, and a sound engineer.

Check the archives. Lots of good advice there.

Posted: **28 Dec 2003 3:53 pm**

Thanks for all the great ideas! They will really help.

Steve

The Steel Guitar Forum

Music Room Design Ideas?

Music Room Design Ideas?