The Steel Guitar Forum

Update 11/4 The Encore is here. Skip to page 3 for lots of pics of the whole setup.

Hello Folks,
New member here. A lifetime bass player who has been largely inactive for the past 4 years since my kids arrived, I've been dreaming of the Pedal Steel ever since I joined a country band 8 years ago. I haven't stopped thinking about it, but Pedal Steel seemed unattainable until this evening when I got a call from my brother…

After 2 years as a novitiate He's taking his vows to enter the Jesuit order next month and has some inheritance that he is using to bless various people before he takes his vow of poverty. He says wants to give me a Pedal Steel setup that I "would never have to replace". He even knows about my current gig as at-home dad of two pre-schoolers and said that this is his last chance to do something like this for me and even if it "sits in the closet for a decade" until I can make use of it he wants to do this for me.

Anywho, he's a very good electric guitarist with an eye for gear and he's put together a list of what he proposes to get me. We haven't nailed down the exact details, so I'll put my questions about each underneath it.

2) Guitar:
http://www.stageonesteelguitars.com/zumsteel_encore

-What is the benefit of the 4th pedal and detachable rest options?
-Any reason not to get the dark woodgrain which I assume is fake? It looks great.
-Single coil vs humbucker?

2) Amp:
http://milkmansound.com/amplifiers/300w-half-and-half

-Combo vs Head/cab? I like the head and cab arrangement for my bass rig, but I'm lugging around a 75 pound Peavy VB2 and an avatar 4x10, so I realize it may be a bit different situation.

-Neo, ceramic or alnico speakers?

3) Volume Pedal:
http://hiltonelectronics.com/pedals

-Major advantages of the Pro vs the standard or compact models?

4) Seat:
http://www.steelerschoice.com/services.html

-How useful is the accessible-while-playing compartment on the sidekick model? Is it worth the upgrade?

-Is an integral power supply a great feature or just something to go wrong that will be harder to fix?

5) Additionally he wants to get me picks, bar(s) and cables
- Recommendation for some picks and bar(s) please.
- Anything special to look for in cables? I've got a set of Monsters for my basses that I like, but I just got those because of the guarantee and the discount I got when working at GC over a decade ago.

Needless to say, I'm kind of in shock and my head is still spinning. Thanks for taking the time to read this wall of text I look forward to hearing you all's opinions.

Karl

The Encore is a great economy guitar. It's NOT a stripped down student model.
The woodgrain is laminate, but that's not a bad thing. Most of the best guitars are sold more mica than lacquer.
Get the 4th pedal. Copedent suggestions below.
There are few amps better than a Milkman. Get whatever speaker Tim recommends. He's not just an amp builder, but a steel player.
Volume pedal: the Pro is meant for underarm guitar. Most steel players prefer the low profile.
Seat: if you're gonna gig, get the sidekick. It's a pain to stand up to look for strings if you break one on stage.
Everyone raves about the BJS bars. They're good, I like the SDF bars, the brass and chrome plated brass are great.

If it were my guitar, I'd get the pedals rigged the following:
P1: raises 1 to G # and 2 to E (many put this on a knee, I like it on the floor, so it can work with a couple of knee levers).
P2: A pedal. Both Bs to C#
P3: B pedal. Both G#s to A
P4: C pedal. 4th and 5th string up a whole step

LKL: both Es to F
LKV: both Bs to A# (with the split at C)
LKR:both Es to D#
RKL: 1st string up to G and 6th string lower to F# (split at G)
RKR: 2nd string to C# with a half-stop at D and 9tg string to C#.
It's got just about all the standard changes.
And I want your brother.

PS: get the single coil, and buy an Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger for use in noisy buildings.

What a great first post, and what a wonderful story.

Welcome, Karl, you're in the right place. The forum is an invaluable resource, as you can see from Lane's post.
His knowledge, and that of many others, will help you along like nowhere else can.

I'd also say that, tone-wise, your brother absolutely makes sense putting more money into the amp than the guitar.
Give a decent player a crappy guitar and a good amp and s/he will sound dynamite.
Give the same player the best guitar and a crappy amp, and it will sound like crap.
There are oodles of great sounding cheaper amps than the Milkman, but the Milkman is at the top of the head.
If you like the head/cab configuration, go ahead and get a 1/15 cab with a neo speaker. I play a Super Twin Reverb through a Sica 15 in a closed back Tommy Huff cab. I asked my wife to schlep the speaker (rated at 400W),and she scoffed "I have PURSES heavier than this." I know, I've held it for her.

Thanks Lane,

My brother's a tone freak so it make sense that he'd suggest a great amp and a solid intermediate guitar rather than the other way around. I'm more than happy to honor that philosophy. Now that I think of it, I'll probably be going with a combo Milkman. Less items to carry around. What's the advantage of 12" vs 15"?

Good to know about the volume pedal, seat, and speaker arrangement etc. All seems vary reasonable. I'll look into the different kind of bars and such.

One other thing, I'm 6'3" with long legs. Is that going to affect my ability to use a standard sized steel?

If you're getting a new steel, tell Doug your height.
The length of pedal rods can be changed in the construction process.

I prefer at least a 15 or 2 12s
The steel likes to stay clean, and moving lots of air helps

It will be new, so I'll let him know.

Good to know about the 15". Coming from the bass I associate it with depth, but often less articulation, but if a 15" is clean and loud for steel that's what I want. A couple extra pounds is not a problem for me, but I don't think a 2x12 is in the cards.

I don't know about the "would never have to replace". The Encore is fine, but I would suggest that you probably will not need such an expensive amp, maybe you should spend more on the guitar. The Encore and the Milkman add up to about 4000, take 3500 of that and get a late model D-10, that will keep you busy for years. There are many amp choices for under 500, I have been using Carvin bass amps for steel guitar and they work great, the MB 15 is good and it's less than 400. You won't need the Milkman amp for learning and playing around the house. Accept the fact that it will be a while before you play any gigs, put the budget to better use by concentrating on the guitar first. That's what I would do.

since you're just starting out and the money is going to be given away anyway, maybe you should get that $10,000 used franklin and maybe a little walter amp and you can sound just like paul franklin.

chris ivey wrote:since you're just starting out and the money is going to be given away anyway, maybe you should get that $10,000 used franklin and maybe a little walter amp and you can sound just like paul franklin.

Ha!
I'm not sure that I want to presume on him quite so much, but that's certainly one idea.

Bill Moore wrote:I don't know about the "would never have to replace". The Encore is fine, but I would suggest that you probably will not need such an expensive amp, maybe you should spend more on the guitar. The Encore and the Milkman add up to about 4000, take 3500 of that and get a late model D-10, that will keep you busy for years. There are many amp choices for under 500, I have been using Carvin bass amps for steel guitar and they work great, the MB 15 is good and it's less than 400. You won't need the Milkman amp for learning and playing around the house. Accept the fact that it will be a while before you play any gigs, put the budget to better use by concentrating on the guitar first. That's what I would do.

I'll think on this. It is a rather expensive amp, when one can get a new nashville 112 for less than $700, but I do like a tube pre. While I may someday get a new gutar once I know what I really like, I am pretty sold on the idea of putting alot of $ in an amp upfront. I'll look at other guitar options though.

Interesting to know about the bass amps for Steel. I've got a Peavey VB2 and Avatar 4x10 and in the small amp department an Ampeg Portabass (not portaflex) and 2x10 neo cab. If I were getting into steel on my own, I'd probably just use the portabass, but since he's footing the bill….

I'll reiterate my earlier point, since I disagree with Bill: a good player on a crappy guitar through a good amp will sound MILES better than the same player on a Franklin through a crappy amp.
If someone is willing to stump the bucks for a Half and Half, the answer is not "I don't need that nice an amp," but "Thank you."
Yes, the Milkman is basically an upgraded Twin, but it sounds subtly but importantly better than the Twin.
Yes, a Twin would certainly suffice, but the Half and Half is loads lighter.

If you do go with a Milkman. .. consider the dual channel model with the second guitar voiced channel...

i'm still intrigued with the notion of a tone freak giving up his worldly possessions. is being a jesuit like being a monk? it's hard for me to wrap my head around this.

chris ivey wrote:i'm still intrigued with the notion of a tone freak giving up his worldly possessions. is being a jesuit like being a monk? it's hard for me to wrap my head around this.

It is a hard thing for most of us to wrap our heads around especially since almost none of the rest of the family are Catholic, but he's been two years in the novitiate already and loves it. It's been pretty cool for us to see his growth as a person as well.

As to what the life is, as best as I understand some Jesuits can be monks, and some may become pastors and leaders (the current Pope is a Jesuit) but most simply serve in the order. The Jesuit's are really into service, social justice and education so many serve in community service or teach in schools/universities, etc. (anything with "Ignatius" or "Loyola" in the title is a Jesuit institution)

As for his gear reduction it was pretty incredible. He was an active player in a band (https://www.facebook.com/noonanband ) until 2 years ago and had several amps, quite a few guitars, alot of pedals, some recording equipment, etc. He didn't have the scratch for much "boutique" stuff, but it was an impressive players collection, much of which had been very tastefully upgraded (pickups, electronics, tube configurations, etc). It's all gone now and now all that's left is his $4k+ Cello which is on consignment! I nabbed one of his knock-off Les Paul's just to have around for guests.

Tom Gorr wrote:If you do go with a Milkman. .. consider the dual channel model with the second guitar voiced channel...

Do you use the second channel for PSG as well? I only ask because I don't play guitar. That said, it might be nice to have around for jamming with others when I'm on bass.

vow of poverty, in this day and age, that's pretty cool.
I'm not religious, but I've had some good experiences with Jesuits. good folks.

anyways, my thoughts are...
an Encore, Milkman and Hilton is gonna be a hell of a rig. like, way better than you need to start with. so, get it, then you've got no excuses. also, don't worry about the specifics too much. you don't know what you want yet, and you won't until you play a bunch, so don't overly research stuff. just go get that rig and get started. it's all good stuff.

j

p.s. I should say, I have an Encore. dark wood grain. 4x5. couldn't be happier with it. Doug is great to deal with.

An update.
I just heard from my brother. He's set on the Encore, Hilton and Milkman and wants to wrap it up all the orders by the end of the week as he's got alot of other stuff to think about before his vows. I'll be deciding on color choices tonight.

I'd love to see pics and suggestions for different color choices for the Milkman, Encore and stools.


Also, recommendations for pics, bars and cables are appreciated.

I like the Herco small blue nylon thumbpicks. Fingerpicks don't matter much, I like
If you have cables, you're all set. A three footer from guitar to volume pedal, and a six or ten footer to the amp.
Color choices are wide open. My favorite amp color is seafoam green.

Here is a picture of the Stage One I owned, It looked really nice. If I were buying an Encore, I'd get one just like it.

I have a Peavey dual channel amp... not a Milkman...It just had been my experience that a second channel voiced for another instrument is very handy. In fact on my Peavey my shobud sounds best through the guitar channel and Emmons best through the steel channel. I also play electric gtr and bass and it handles both those duties too.

dark wood grain...[/img]

The Stage One and the Encore are not the same thing. The stage one has a fixed copedant, that cannot be altered. The copedant on the encore is not fixed, and can be changed at will.

This may not seem important a the moment, but sooner or later you will want to experiment with the way your guitar is set up. You might want to try the Day pedal setup, or change the way the knee levers are arranged, or add a change.

For that reason, I suggest the Encore, rather than the Stage One.

Definitely getting the Encore with the 4th pedal. Just a matter of choosing the finish and I think I'm going to go with the teak woodgrain, though the dark woodgrain is really nice also..

The Steelers Choice seat with the sidecar is a definite plus, top quality seats and the sidecar feature is very handy if you break a string in the middle of song

Joe Naylor of Steel Seat makes some nice variations with different features as well

You could not go wrong with either option.