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Topic: 9th String Lower Problem on Pro-I |
Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 4:18 am |
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This one has me baffled: On LKR I lower 2 D#-D-C# and 9 D-C#. With the lever fully engaged the 9th string will not lower to C# (+30 cents/448 Hz). However, when I release the lever slowly the 9th drops to C# (0 cents/440 Hz).
I tried disconnecting the 2nd string change, thinking the problem might be there, but to no avail. I can't see anything binding in the undercarriage or changer and I don't think there is a ball end stuck in the changer. Any ideas?
The guitar is a Sho~Bud Pro-I with Super Pro undercarriage and a 3R/2L changer.
Thanks in advance,
Rainer
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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 5:57 am
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Could be that the return spring on the lower finger is too tight. If so, the raise finger might start raising when the lower pullrod tries to lower the string to C#. To fix the problem make sure the pullrod for the lower is located at the hole closest to the return-spring. Make sure the return-spring is not too tight. Try loosen the return spring until the 9th string starts lowering by the tension of the string itself and then tighten the return-spring just a little to bring the string back in tune and tighten the spring just a little bit more.
Bengt Erlandsen |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 6:33 am
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Bengt,
the guitar does not have adjustable lower return springs. In order to increase the tension, the spring has to be shortened by cutting it. Decreasing the tension is impossible, unless I'm too dense to see how. 
The pullrod is in the lowering hole closest to the changer axle right now. I'll try the other one and see what I'll get.
Rainer |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 6:44 am
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Rainer
If you change to a different lowering hole,
the half-stop on the D# string will be out of tune.
Did the 9th string lower correctly to C# at any time in the past? Have you tried changing the string?
What happens if you remove the pullrod, and try to push the lower bar manually, using a screwdriver or something? Can you see the raise bar moving also? The raise bar should not move when you lower the string, but it might raise if the lower-return spring is too tight.
Although you can't change the tension of the lower-return spring, perhaps you can swap with a looser spring from another string. |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 7:03 am
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To lessen tension of a spring, simply force a small screwdriver between coils, and spread them, ever so lightly. Repeat procedure until the spring does what YOU want it to do.
Bill H. |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 7:10 am
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Earnest,
I got the guitar last week and don't know if it worked properly in the past. I did change strings, though (Jagwire .034w nickel). The halfstop will not be a problem as the guitar has an extra lever stop with a spring-loaded screw that acts as a halfstop. Very precise and effective.
I pushed the finger back manually and the raise finger does indeed prevent the full lower. It slides back when the lever comes back, thus allowing the full lower, eventually.
This changer has an additional row of return springs fastened to a bracket on the deck. Not all strings have this second spring, though. The 2nd, 4th and 6th strings don't. I have just taken out this additional spring for string 9 and the raise finger doesn't move anymore.
Now the 9th string lowers all the way. 
However - if I activate the lever to its halfstop, the 9th string goes 10 cents flat and stays there, even when the lever is released. If the lever is pressed all the way, the flat 9 D goes to C# and comes back to a perfectly tuned D.
I have traded one problem for another. 
BTW: If I've made a serious boo-boo by taking out the additional spring and the guitar will self-destruct during the next gig, please tell me now!
Rainer |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 7:27 am
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| Quote: |
| This changer has an additional row of return springs fastened to a bracket on the deck. |
Those are raise-helper springs. You don't need it on the 9th string, because you probably don't raise the 9th string. (Maybe you do. I do raise my 9th string, but it is an easy raise, and there is no need for a helper spring.)
As you have learned, the raise-helper can "help" when you don't need help. I mean that they can raise when you don't want it to raise. I'm sure that's why the sping was removed from your 4th string. It was interfeering with the lowering of the 4th string.
Your new problem can be fixed. A slightly stronger lower-return spring would probably fix it. I'm sure that your new problem was not caused by removing the raise-helper spring, so don't bother to replace it.
You should be able to reach the half-stop on string 2, before you begin to move string 9. In the best case, string 9 should begin to move where the knee lever is exactly at the half-stop. You can probably do this by moving the pull-rod to a different hole on the changer. Experiment with both string 9 and string 2, but be patient and use your tuner carefully.
When you fix the half-stop this way, it will avoid the new problem in the case you mentioned, but still it could occur if you lower string 9 a tiny bit, and then release, as you are doing now. So you should be sure that the changer is clean and well-lubricated, and then consider a slightly stronger spring if nothing else can fix it. |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 4 Dec 2003 7:40 am
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Thank you very much for your help, Earnest. I'll do as you suggest. I'm sure glad I didn't mess things up irreparably with my ignorance. 
Rainer |
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