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Topic: Recommended Power Conditioner |
Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2015 10:16 am |
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I had a horrible night Friday night and now in doing some reading I believe it was caused by sagging power. My old reliable Twin Reverb just wasn't happy at all. I couldn't buy good tone to save my soul. On top of it, the bass player was playing insanely too loud and his cabinet was right behind my left ear. I am convinced I need to buy a power conditioner of some type. What are you guys recommending these days? I'm looking for more than filtering. I want something to maintain constant power
Thanks in advance
steve |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Richard Wilhelm
From:
Ventura County, California
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Posted 14 Jun 2015 12:35 pm
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I just saw an ad for Brown Box in Guitar Player with Kenny Vaughan pushing it. www.brownbox1.com
_________________
"Be Kind to Animals, don't eat Them"
"If you know music, you°ll know most everything you°ll need to know" Edgar Cayce
"You're only young forever" Harpo Marx
Fender 400, Fender FM212, G&L ASAT.
Was part of a hippie-Christian store in Cotati, California (circa 1976) called THE EYE OF THE RAINBOW. May God love you. |
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Ronald Sikes
From:
Corsicana, Tx
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Posted 14 Jun 2015 1:19 pm
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I have a Furman AR1215 in my rackmount. However it looks like it's been discontinued and replaced with the M-8xAR. Great units but they're a little pricey.
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?id=AR-1215
_________________
Show Pro #26 & #83,BJS bars,Stereo Steel,Tommy Huff cabs loaded with JBL D130's, Wampler pedals,NV112,NV400, Steelers Choice Seats |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 14 Jun 2015 2:57 pm
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Good advice and recommendations. Also, fire the bass player  |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 14 Jun 2015 3:26 pm
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Do not use a variac! Why not? If there is low line voltage because some appliance is dragging it down, and someone shuts it off, and you have your variac cranked to compensate... its goodbye Twin Reverb.
keep in mind your twin was probably designed to sound good from 100-120V. Tube circuits are pretty forgiving, and anything in that range will be "close enough" to the voltages the tubes want to be happy.
When I power up my amp chassis for the first time I use a variac, and they sound pretty much the same from about 90V to 120V. A power conditioner or line filter is not gonna do much except act as a fancy power strip.
If you are really worried about locking in the voltage I would invest in a computer battery backup UPS system. If the power goes out completely, you will still get your 120V for a few minutes. Its just one more heavy thing to drag around with you from gig to gig though
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2015 8:40 am
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If you're looking for a device to maintain a constant line voltage for your equipment, you need to buy a line regulator...or a UPS that has that feature built in.
The ones you see at computer stores for 70 or 80 bucks are battery backup units. Their purpose is to supply line voltage (from the internal battery) only when the incoming line drops out. That's why they are so heavy...the battery.
The fact of the matter is that, if you are only interested in maintaining a constant line voltage, you don't need a battery at all. A Line Regulator will keep the 120VAC rock solid, within certain limits, of course, and if the house voltage goes off so does your Regulator.
The Line Regulators aren't cheap, but they do the job very effectively. Just make sure the one you choose has the current capability to supply your rig.
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Michael Butler
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2015 10:00 am
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perhaps you may need to retube the twin and move the bass cab to a different location.
play music!
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please see my Snakeskin's Virtual Music Museum below.
http://muscmp.wordpress.com/ |
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robert kramer
From:
Nashville TN
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Kerry Johnson
From:
the Bay Area, CA
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2015 5:48 am
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Thank you all for the replies and the PM's. There are a few old threads pertaining to the same topic. It looks as though the Furman AR1215 or it's new replacement model is what I will probably go for. Ideally, I was hoping for the same functionality but not in a rack mount since I don't carry any other rack gear. Of course a UPS would probably be a viable solution but I know they can really get heavy since your carrying around a large battery.
thank you again
steve |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 18 Jun 2015 9:09 am
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So if I'm playing a gig somewhere where the AC drops to say 80 volts, the Furman will bring the line voltage back up to 120 V? How does it do that? Seems impossible without huge batteries.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 18 Jun 2015 12:51 pm
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I'm guessing a switch-mode power supply?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Dave Potter
From:
Texas
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Posted 18 Jun 2015 5:03 pm
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| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| Do not use a variac! ... When I power up my amp chassis for the first time I use a variac |
I definitely will not be the one to say you don't know what you're talking about. But your post is incomprehensible. First, you say don't do it. Then, you say you do it.
That's not helpful. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 18 Jun 2015 6:17 pm
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Dave,
Tim uses the variac in his shop as a tool to control voltage while testing amplifiers. He says not to use a variac in an uncontrolled situation where say a bars ice machine kicks on and off.
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Bob |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 18 Jun 2015 7:44 pm
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To reiterate what others have said - you need a voltage regulator or a UPS which also regulates voltage to fix this type of problem. I have been using a Furman AR-1215 voltage for the last ca. 15 years after having an experience at a gig on a barge offshore on the Susquehanna River with power from a single AC line run from onshore. Every time the bass player hit a note, my AC mains voltage went down 20VAC or more (I measured it), and my old Fender sounded like a bad phart for the entire gig. Enough was enough, I never leave home without the Furman. It's in a 2-space rack with my Tubefex, and is no big deal to haul - for a steel player with a 60-70 lb pedal steel and likewise for the amp, it's a piece of cake.
Tim is spot-on regarding his use of a Variac to power up a new amp for the first time for testing. There are many reasons - e.g., allow the electrolytics to gradually form, less chance of damage if there is a wiring error or bad component, and so on.
So is his recommendation to not use one on a working amp on a live gig. A variac is just a variable AC transformer, and can step the voltage up or down by a variable but fixed (once it's set) amount. E.g., if the input AC voltage is 100VAC and you set the output/input turns ratio to 1.2, you'll get 120VAC, which is 'normal'. But if the input voltage goes back up to a more 'normal' 120VAC, you'll now get 144VAC at the output. Goodbye old Fender, that is way too high. There is no feedback circuit in a variac, hence no regulation.
A voltage regulator uses voltage output feedback to automatically react to changes in the input line voltage to give a regulated output AC voltage somewhere near the 'nominal' value of 120VAC. The AR-1215 regulates output AC voltage at 117 within a few volts AC (plus or minus) with input voltage swings from around 90VAC to about 140VAC. For input voltages outside that limit, it just shuts down, which is the smart thing to do - low or high voltages like that are likely to cause problems with many, many circuits. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 30 Jun 2015 11:27 am
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A constant voltage stabilized transformer will put out 120 VAC with reasonable swings in input voltage, up to a point. Great for accomodating sags and surges.
It's accomplished by running the transformer core "in saturation". Basically the core is saturated at the minimum input voltage specified by the manufacturer (i.e 95 volts or so for some models) and then any voltage over that is ignored by the core... it's already saturated.
They run hot, because the core is always saturated.
Topaz ans Sola are the two flavors I have.
They come in VA ratings from 100 on up. Probably a 500 or 1000 VA unit would be nice.
YMMV....
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Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 6:16 am
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As long as your rig doesn't pull more than 10 amps of current, it's a good choice, Steve. Actually, in my experience, Triplite is a very reliable brand. It would be my choice if I needed a line conditioner.
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 7:27 am
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| Dave Potter wrote: |
| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| Do not use a variac! ... When I power up my amp chassis for the first time I use a variac |
I definitely will not be the one to say you don't know what you're talking about. But your post is incomprehensible. First, you say don't do it. Then, you say you do it.
That's not helpful. |
if its not understood, then you should defer to the "don't use it" part of my post.
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 9:20 am
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| Thank you all for your replies. It does look like the Tripp Lite would be a good solution and the price is in line with my budget. |
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Jerry Hedge
From:
Norwood Ohio U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 8:01 pm
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| Dale Rottacker wrote: |
| I don’t know nothin from nutin, but found it interesting that a couple of days ago I was watching an interview on YouTube with Eddie Van Halen, and how back in the day when he had a TOO loud Marshall Amp that he used a Variac to cut the voltage down between 60-80 to cut the power of the amp... Like I said, I know nothing, but found this interesting. |
Van Halen was trying to make the amp distort more at his stage volume, that's why he used a variac. What he probably DIDN'T mention was that his amps ate output tubes for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I remember reading an interview with his amp tech from those days, where he talked about how often he had to retube Eddie's Marshall amps. He was using the variac to LOWER the plate voltage, so to get the amp back to the same volume, he would have to turn it up higher. The bad thing, in his case, not only did it lower the plate voltage, it also lowered the heater voltage as well. That would destroy the output tubes at a rapid rate. The tech could only find one brand of output tube that could last a whole gig, the Phillips 6CA7/EL34. They had a a larger glass bottle, about the size of a 6L6 bottle, which would dissipate the heat of a tube running with a "starved" heater voltage. It was one of the last tubes that was still being made in the U.S. at that time. When they went out of production in the mid 80's they had to find an alternative. That's about the time Van Halen started working with Peavey on the 5150 amp circuit. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 9:22 pm
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Yeah - lowering the AC voltage to an amp, a la Van Halen, is NOT good for the tubes or your amp. This was done to help get Eddie's "Brown Sound". But the correct approach, IMO, is to redesign the amp to operate, for example, at lower plate voltages. You get less volume, but a sweeter distorted sound, to my tastes - if that's what you're going for. And good luck finding NOS 6CA7 Philips/Sylvania tubes anymore - and if you find some, be prepared to spend mucho dinero.
A tube amp is designed for a certain AC input voltage, and it wants to see that voltage, period. |
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