Emmons Guitars-- - - - - - Ponder This

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 19 Nov 2003 2:38 pm

Greetings everyone: Here is a little something for you to think about and express your openions on. As we all know, Emmoms guitars are highly regarded. BUT WHAT IF. What if this very same guitar had been built by someone else? What if Buddy Emmons had never been connected with this guitar and had never played one. Do you think it would have become the legend it became? Just wondering----------Eddie

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 19 Nov 2003 3:06 pm

If Buddy Emmons had played the banjo, I would probably be a banjo owner.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 19 Nov 2003 3:21 pm

Not a chance! It took a legend to make it a legend.

Same thing goes for Sho ~ Bud....except it took two legends.

Bob

Larry Harlan · Post by **Larry Harlan** » 19 Nov 2003 3:30 pm

I can't say for "the new" Emmons gutiars, but when the P/P came out, it was the psg instrument of the hour. It was an "update" from what was on the market at the time and was an instrument that came along in psg history that seemed to be at just the right time. Therefore, it probably would have sold quite well, regardless, but with Mr. Emmons' endorsement and name on it, sales certainly did not lag. Interestingly, the demand and mystique of the guitar still remains out there even though since it's inception, there have been many updates mechanically, electronically, technologically, and esthetically.[This message was edited by Larry Harlan on 19 November 2003 at 03:31 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 19 Nov 2003 3:37 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:44 PM.]

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 19 Nov 2003 3:39 pm

I would say without Buddy's input in the designing it would not have been the guitar it was and is. I believe his playing it made us notice it sooner but I believe the
guitar would have been discovered in time no matter who played it. It just sounds too good not to become the benchmark guitar. I don't think it could have been kept a secret.
Jerry

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 19 Nov 2003 3:43 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:44 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 19 Nov 2003 4:03 pm

hmmmm

Very difficult question to answer. It is doubtful the Emmons' guitar would ever have been built if Buddy had not had an input into its creation.

But assuming for moment that the guitar emerged at the time it did (all else being equal) but Buddy continued to play a Sho-Bud, I doubt serioulsy if the Emmons' P/P guitar would have sold nearly as many as it did if any hardly any at all.

I base this on the fact that when you have a superstar use ANY product, sales always increase dramatically. Another thing is, I don't believe the Nashville players would have been nearly as receptive to a new kid on the block; if Buddy had not been a part of it.

As it was, GOO stars like Weldon Myrick, Hall Rugg and Sonny Burnett as well as a lot of others, were very much a part of the Emmons P/P catapulting to fame; and this surely was because of the fact that Buddy was part of its creation.

Finally, IF the P/P had never been, and suddenly today, it came on the market, it would not make it IMO; for the same reason it is no longer being built (except for one builder). It just does not lend itself to modern copedents.

There is another factor however that is not withstanding of any of the above. And that is Ron Lashely Sr. He was in a word a genious. So I will say that if Buddy had never been a part of Emmons guitars in any way and they were simply called a Lashley instead, and Ron's first guitar was the LeGrande, it WOULD have made quite a splash, because it is truly one of the finest PSG's EVER built.

And its sound is really hard to beat in the mind's of sooo many. Having studied in depth just about every PSG on the market, if I was interested in a new D-10 it would be a LeGrande III hands down. EVEN if Buddy was not playing one or had not been a part of its creation. With respect to a D-10, NO other D-10 guitar I know of would satisfy me.

May Jesus rest Ron's soul and bless all of you,

carl

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 19 Nov 2003 4:03 pm

Loaded question and hard to say. It was a great guitar from the beginning and still is today. It was Buddys ability to have an idea on the design and ultimately his style and prowess of the instrument that brought it to the forefront of the steel guitar world. Here's another take on it. If Jimmy Day had been the guy behind this guitar from the start I'd say the guitar would have been just as successful. In those days these guys played a lot alike. Both played with RP and other hit artists of the day and ultimately the guitar would've been heard as much on the radio.

I wonder who sold the most guitars then, Emmons or Sho-Bud?

I think it would be fair to say that Buddy had a sound in mind to fit his style of playing and turned out to be the majic match.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear him play live again with the Blade and some old Session 400's?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Nov 2003 4:14 pm

Old Session 400's? I'd prefer a Standel, if you don't mind!

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 19 Nov 2003 4:45 pm

Bobby Lee----don,t get off topic here or we will have to move you to "Electronics".

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 19 Nov 2003 4:56 pm

I was thinking of the late 70's sound like at the 77 convention.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 19 Nov 2003 5:37 pm

Well consider this:

Fender Stringmasters are a legend, and Leo Fender did not even play; so I've learned on this forum. The Fender 1000 is not so desireable as the modern PSG's. Judging from these two facts, it seems that it has more to do with the instrument itself.

Rick

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Nov 2003 5:53 pm

Were it not for Buddy's "name involvement", and his playing on both guitars, neither would have become a legend. It's just like Bob Carlson said. The man made the guitar(s)...not the other way around.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 19 Nov 2003 6:48 pm

First,I think the Sho~Bud sold more guitars (way more) than any other maker.Second,Buddy also played other guitars at the one point in time or another (Sierra,MCI) but they never got to be as big as Emmons guitars.Emmons steel would be a great guitar because of its design and tone but I don`t think they would get as far as they did without Buddy Emmons being behind them.

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Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Nov 2003 7:36 pm

In my opinion Buddy's name on that instrument has acted as a 'hallmark' - there's no question that it's always been one of the very best guitars available, but the truth is that for every player that buys one on its own merits, there are three that buy his name on the front 'apron'.

It's the same as 20+ handicap golfers insisting on Ben Hogan irons at $700 a set, or McGregor VIPs because Nicklaus used them - even though they can't, at their moderate skill-level, possibly gain anything from the subtle refinements inherent in these fine clubs; it's the same 'hallmark' principal.

Of course there have been, and still are, many top players who swear by Emmons guitars, but this only reinforces the power that Buddy's name carries - the part-time player will see this as confirmation that he has acquired the very best tool for the job, even though there are clearly a large number of steels that would serve him just as well - especially nowadays!

There's nothing wrong with this, of course - it's the way of the commercial world. Buddy has, indeed, played several different steels, but they didn't inherit the same kudos because they didn't carry the Maestro's name....

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Roger Rettig

Tom Vollmer · Post by **Tom Vollmer** » 19 Nov 2003 7:53 pm

IN them mid 60,s I was ready to buy a Sho- Bud which was a large step up from the Fender 1000 ,getting a Bigsby was almost impossible in PA.I went to see a Kitty Wells show in Reinholds Pa. and Stu Basore was playing steel, I asked him about Sho-Bud,s and he said did you know about the new Emmons stereo steel .I said no and he gave me literature on the new Emmons.I got the name from Ron Lashly of someone who had an Emmons PP and looked him up,played his guitar went home and ordered one.To my memory the Emmons and Sho-Bud both sounded great and they still sound as good as anything available today.The diffrence was the mechanics underneath.The Sho-Bud was sort of Rube Goldberg while the Emmons was very precise and orderly,plus was able to be changed to differnt pedal changes.Another factor was it was the most compact guitar at that time.Most steel players smoked then so the Formica on the body instead of a lacquer finish was a big plus.I would have bought one if it had been called a Lashly.By the way Buddy was my idol then and still is today.TV

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 19 Nov 2003 8:10 pm

We will never know if another name on this guitar would have been as successful as the Emmons guitar. I believe Buddy Emmons name sure helped in the sales but that was not the what really sold the guitar. It was different from any other brand on the market at the time and the sound was great IMHO. The fact is that Buddy Emmons is not only a great player but a mastermind of the mechanics as well. Watch the videos "A Summit With The Masters" and listen to the stories about how the pedals come about. Jimmie Crawford talks about Buddy Emmons designing the Emmons guitar while they were on a tour bus together. As great as Buddy Emmons is he probably could have invented anything he had set his mind to. He was blessed with a tremendous gift of music and he certainly has brought a lot of joy to my life listening to him play. I can hardly wait for the Texas show so I can see him again.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 19 Nov 2003 8:19 pm

When the Emmons guitar arrived on the scene, it was the most mechanically versatile guitar around, since it could raise and lower each string, and more than once... something that most other steels were unable to do.

Of course Buddy's name and involvement were advantageous to the company. But I believe that being the adventurous musician that he is, Big E would have found the guitar regardless of its name and given it his playing endorsement because of its features.

This topic is kind of like postulating what would have happened if the Nazis had invented the nuclear bomb before we did. Interesting, but ultimately meaningless.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 19 Nov 2003 10:56 pm

I think Roger's really onto something with the Golf Club analogy. Although, even those with moderate handicaps can certainly appreciate the tone those Hogans have when the head meets the ball- there's just something about the midrange in that "whack" that turns heads every time. And you have to admit, the black grips have the best "whack" of all...

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 19 November 2003 at 10:56 PM.]

RON PRESTON · Post by **RON PRESTON** » 20 Nov 2003 3:43 am

I'm Pondering, I'm Pondering, and the only thing I can think is this: I am REALLY hoping that The "BIg E" himself posts SOMETHING...I would LOVE to read what HE'S Thinking.

I have seen ALL the "Contraptions" and Blueprints that are so well perserved at the Emmons' Factory that Ron Sr. had "Tinkerd" with, and belive Me, as Carl has stated, He WAS a Brillant fellow. And with Buddys' mind working with his, Good Lord, there was NO END to the possibilitys. If they had worked together for, lets say, 3-4 more years together, they might have come up with a P/P/P/P...Who knows, all I know is, there is nothing, (IMHO) like an EMMONS.

(Push/Pull/Pack/Phew

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 20 Nov 2003 5:55 am

I'm glad that you get it, Mark!

Forged 'blades' (really!) or 'fat-backs'(my golf pro's name for them, I promise!) versus the more forgiving 'cavity back' clubs that are meant for the high-handicapper.....

Could my analogy be any more fitting?

As for grips, I have a 2-iron with a mahogany-hued shade to it - I don't want to confuse things, but it sounds pretty good. It must be a 'blade', surely?

RR

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 20 Nov 2003 6:01 am

On a more serious note.....

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but, once Emmons were in production, how did their sales compare to those of Sho-Bud's?

Did Sho-Bud's location have an effect on sales (TN vs. NC), or were production methods the key to any difference in the totals achieved by each company?

RR

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 20 Nov 2003 8:06 am

Ron Preston:
Buddy will not reply to this post. The reason I say that is what could he say that would not sound like he was braging. Buddy is to much of a class act to brag about anything he has done.

Bob

Tom Hodgin · Post by **Tom Hodgin** » 20 Nov 2003 12:43 pm

Ever heard of "a marriage born in heaven" ?? with Ron sr's degree in electronic engineering and Big E's music mind, it just had to happen.. I believe this was the "corner stone" for all the great psg's today.. some things are just meant to be, and this was one of them....tom