The Steel Guitar Forum

I know I'm an "entry-level" player, and I don't expect to ever get past a certain point of facility on the steel, but I still find it alternately fascinating and infuriating when I run straight into my limitations. This time, it's the blasted middle finger and its attendant fingerpick. I switched to Nationals from Dunlops a few months back, and I haven't really spent enough time on top of the steel to get comfortable with them, so I've been trying in the past week or two to address that. And the more that I do, the more I realise that I am hopelessly incapable of developing any consistency around my use of that most important finger. I keep messing with the pick, bending it this way and that, watching my angle of attack, feeling how it feels, trying to copy the bend of the Dunlop pick as closely as possible, looking at pics of Jeff Newman's hand (or Buddy's, or whomever else), etc. etc., and I simply cannot get a grip - literally. But if I pull out my old Dunlop pick, my accuracy and speed and blocking all improve (well, at least slightly). - *EDIT* - Not even an option anymore, because after posting this, I went to look for that Dunlop pick, and found it partially squashed at the bottom of my bag of "extra" picks - enough to make it no longer fit like it did before!

I switched to the Nationals both for the better "feel" of the pick (I like the weight/gauge and general metal feel better) and also to avoid the over-large band of the Dunlops (which I tried to grind down with a Dremel, but all that did was cause ruts in my finger and cuticle). So the dilemma is that I play (slightly) better (I think?!) with a pick which I don't prefer the feel of than with one which I do. Sure, I could just go back to the Dunlop (edit - well, not anymore!), but then how much of the "accident" of that one specific pick am I hindering myself with? I mean, come on, how hard can it be to get either the National pick or my finger/brain nexus to work for me? Apparently, pretty hard.

Some day, when I can afford it and justify it, I intend to buy and work Right Hand Alpha, and if that "takes" at all (and that's a big question mark), then maybe I'll know what I'm doing just well enough for this to no longer be such an issue; but in the meantime, I'm hobbled by my own inability to adapt to a simple switch of picks. How pathetic is that?

It's not pathetic, but it takes more time with some players. Play with whatever feels good to you, and you'll soon cross that hurdle. Jeff's "Right Hand Alpha" is one way to do things, but there are other ways, too! Never think there's only one way to do anything.

Recorded lessons never address you as an individual, they just recommend what some other guy does. Get some lessons from a good live player, who can give you both positive and negative feedback on what you're doing, and your eyes will be opened.

Thanks, Donny - that's a tough hurdle for me, as I'm 99.999% self-taught at everything I've ever done in music, including (and especially) the steel, and that's so deeply ingrained in me that I never once even considered real lessons from a real live actual living person. (I'm so completely insular and antisocial that the very idea goes against everything in my nature.) But I completely understand what you're saying - there's no substitute for that kind of direct feedback.

It's just hard to fathom that something so seemingly small could have such a drastic negative impact on my playing ability. I have so little confidence to begin with that it tends to scupper any shred of it that's left. But I will continue to persevere, because I'm also bloody-minded and stubborn, and I guess that helps counter-balance my many other charms.

It took me about 2 years to adjust to finger picks, and I have a live instructor! In the mean time he saved me from a lot of bad habits and flooded me with drills and exercises on grips and blocking. Once in a while he'll throw some "candy"(usable licks) to me.
Donny is giving you great advice on the live teacher. Good luck, hope you're able to find someone compatible with your needs that can teach you!

Paul

I feel your pain ,literally and then I designed a new finger pick,. I don't want to sell you something more to try, But if you will send me your mailing address I will send you a (1) SADDLE finger pick, to try and keep. It is not like any other pick on the market and it may not work either, but you will never know till you try. See the pick at www.saddlethumbpicks.com
Send mailing address to: info@saddlethumbpicks.com Helping musicians is our most important product.

Thanks, Richard - I'm open to trying new picks (and anything else that helps too, technique and otherwise), and that's an incredibly generous offer. Look for my email shortly....

Paul for what its worth I had the same exact troubles you are going through.As far as picks go I used Kysors for eons but always was trying to make them fit like a glove.I use JF picks now at thats all I will ever use till I die.One thing I do on my picks is I have copious amounts of heat shrink and I clipped enough off to cover the bands that wrap around the fingers.What this does for me is it not only provides comfort but also saves the cuticles and I no longer have an issue with hang nails.This is just how I do it as stated earlier in the thread there is no right or wrong way as each player has his or her individual ideas.God Bless Slim

Try leaving your picks for a while each day when you are doing something else.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Bob, I like the idea of intentionally wearing the picks while doing other things. I think I've inadvertently done that on a number of occasions already. The trick for me is somehow getting back to the place where I can comfortably feel that I know what that finger is going to do when I try to do it. Right now, if I were to try to pick all 10 strings, just coming down the neck from 1 to 10, with my middle finger only, I'd probably have a 50/50 ratio of hits and misses. (I can basically nail it 99.99% with the thumb and first finger, which is about as well as I do on guitar and bass, which was apparently acceptable enough to keep me employed doing that for a number of years.) So I need to isolate the problem and tackle it from as many sides and angles as I can. Confidence and comfort are hugely important, as I severely lack both in my general life, and that's magnified a hundredfold by such a complex task as playing the pedal steel.

So I'm still going to keep plugging away (as much as I can at least) until something shifts again. Hopefully my playing will come away better, in some aspect, for it....

As a tangental addendum to Mr. Hoffner, I think it's a good idea to have TWO sets of fingerpicks - one is to practice playing music with, the other is to fiddle around with when watching TV, in bed, reading etc. And TWO sets of pliers, one needlenose... the issue here is, the amount of time you might spend sitting behind your steel dicking with your picks, instead of playing music. If you want them to feel absolutely perfect, you'll never play a note! So then, when/if they hurt too much to use, change out your practice set for your fiddled-with set, and go to work on the less comfortable ones in your spare time. Until they're the more comfortable ones, etc. And, as they say, once you go ACRI, you'll never go back-ri!



Actually they never say that, at least I hope not. I do have to shorten them, reshape the blades and all... I'll have to try these saddle picks too, as it is my function; or even because they're maybe the only product ever advertised as using your fat as an advantage! Unless, maybe, you can squash people who make up annoying slogans by sitting on them.

Thanks to all who helped me out with suggestions and ideas. I've had some urgent family situations (in addition to my own ongoing battle with Crohn's) which have severely limited my time behind the MSA to really sort things out, but I think that it's mainly going to be about the way you get to Carnegie Hall - i.e. the "p" word. Hopefully I'll have more time to do so in the coming days - well, okay, weeks, months, years, something like that. I am finding that some of my old speed is starting - very, very slowly - to come back a teeny tiny bit, but that might just be the difference between my bad days and my good ones. My inconsistency is the thing that makes me the most insane about this whole situation....

Paul Did you receive the free pick I sent for you to try?
SADDLE

Paul,

I believe that one problem for some people who are new to using metal fingerpicks is that they either do not realize that most experienced players adjust them-- or they do not know how to adjust them. I’ve played pedal steel a long time and played banjo even longer, and I’ve always adjusted new fingerpicks—both the fingerpick bands and the blade angle.

The first thing I do when I start using new fingerpicks (about once a decade or so) for either instrument, is to take a needle-nose pliers and adjust the taper and fit of the bands so that they fit like “little gloves”. This takes about 15 minutes per pick, and makes them extremely comfortable and unlikely to slip off.

Here is the most important part: for my steel guitar fingerpicks, I then gently bend the blade so that the angle of the blade tip to the bands is 29 degrees on the index-fingerpick, and 31 degrees on the middle-fingerpick. I discovered through a lot of experimentation that these angles work best for striking the strings effectively, speed, and good ergonomics. I then file a little notch on the band of the index fingerpick so that I can easily tell them apart at a gig. Below is a drawing of how I measure the blade-angle for my fingerpicks.

After I measured the angles of my favorite re-shaped fingerpicks, I examined some photos of great steel players, and measured their fingerpick blade-angle with a protractor. It appears that both Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin (the only two players I could find close-ups of their fingerpicks in side-view) use a blade-angle that appears very close to mine. And here’s the most convincing bit of evidence that supports this “magic blade angle theory”-- a few years ago, Bobby Black, a Steel Guitar Hall of Famer who has played with Commander Cody, Barbara Mandrell, Asleep At The Wheel, etc., graciously allowed me to trace his fingerpick blade-angles on a note-card. I later measured it, and his pick blade-angles were 29 degrees and 30 degrees!

I expect that several folks might post messages claiming that the “blade angle doesn’t matter”, or argue how they prefer a dramatically different blade-angle (I have seen some photos of a nearly 90-degree blade angle used by one SGF member.) I am not trying to tell anyone what to do; if you are happy with your picking effectiveness, speed, and ergonomics, just ignore this post. On the other hand, if you are not completely happy with the above results, then I would suggest using a 29-degree blade-angle as a starting point. It only takes a few minutes of your time and costs nothing to do a little experiment—and you can always bend the picks back to how you had them before if you don’t like the new blade angles.
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Once I have adjusted the blade-angle, I then gently push both pick-bands a little bit sideways; this rotates the fingerpicks slightly around my fingers so that the flat of the blade strikes the strings squarely. Below is a drawing showing how I re-shape the pick-bands to rotate around my fingertips.

I then use a trick I read on the SGF: I adhere one half of one of those pink eyeglass pads you can buy at most drugstores for “10 for $2” on the inside of both bands of each fingerpick—exactly where the band crosses over your fingernail groove. This makes them extremely comfortable to wear for long periods of time (like a four-hour gig or a lot of practicing), and virtually ensures that the picks will not slip off, and your fingernail grooves do not become inflamed (which I learned the hard way is not much fun at all).

As to brands, I started with Nationals and later switched to Dunlops after National stopped making picks for a number of years. But I realized that the metal alloy in Dunlops did not produce the best tone, and began using “Roy’s Own” banjo fingerpicks because they use the same alloy as the legendary old National fingerpicks that guys like Emmons and Day were using back in the day. “Roy’s Own” fingerpicks provide great tone and are available on-line for only about $10 a pair.

I hope you find this helpful.

- Dave

What a timely and informative post. I was looking at my picks yesterday and thinking that they needed to be adjusted for better fit somehow. I had a vague idea what I wanted but your dimensions provided the perfect solution. I have most recently been using "ProPiks" that have a similar angle built-in, but they needed to be tweaked. I made your suggested adjustments and noticed immediate improvement.

Thanks again.

John in Ventura

What Richard McVicker said!!

SADDLE PICKS. Stay in place and WAY comfortable. Have tried lots of brands with various levels of success, but these SADDLE picks are the real deal!

Dave Mangram nailed it. (excellent post, sir) If you haven't seriously tried adjusting your picks as he describes, you've done yourself a disservice. Well adjusted finger picks can be worn for hours without pain or cuticle damage. His advice is a great starting point for any newbie, or intermediate player.

Give it a try. I think you'll be glad you did.

Different picks for different pokes.
I started on 5-string in '59, then immediately to guitar, always with fingerpicks. Do you fingerpick guitar? If so, you have a big leap over someone just beginning to fingerpick,
I cannot pick at all when the blade is wrapped around the fingertip. Nor can I when the blades stick way beyond the ends of my fingers. I wear them at an angle that sorta corresponds to the way my hand addresses the guitar. My arm and hand are straight, my elbow just barely brushing my right side chest. I want the flat of the blade, and no more than 1/4" striking the string flat against the string. I cut the thumbpick blade short. I pick quite firmly. And my picks are a bit different.
Different picks for different pokes.

What's funny is that I used to experiment with fingerpicks on standard guitar when I was younger, and I have done an extensive amount of bare fingerpicking on guitar (for a couple of years I didn't use a pick on electric guitar at all, regardless of the style of music), and I found that getting used to committing to fingerpicks actually was more difficult, rather than less, after the many years of being used to plucking strings with the naked finger (plus I'd become a mediocre imitation replacement bass player in the intervening years, and that didn't help - anything!). I nearly pursued playing with just a thumbpick and bare fingers (my dad plays steel that way and I consider him to be one of my music heroes and great influences), but the tone I wanted to get just wasn't obtainable that way, and I felt I needed to learn "properly" (whatever that means).

I appreciate everyone's continued tips and ideas, and I very much appreciate the more "scientific" analysis-based observations. I think I've gotten a better "grip" (pun intended) on my middle finger since I posted my first frustrations, but I haven't been able to log as much time behind the steel as I'd like to really put myself through the paces fully (between "family" and "medical" and "family medical" things have been pretty tied up lately). But I do think I'm getting closer to where I was before. It seems like I need to get to the point where I can "feel" intuitively where the pick needs to be for me to be accurate with it.

I still find it odd that I haven't had this level of grief with either the thumb pick (I have my preferred thumbpicks, but I can usually get things done with any size or shape as long as it stays on my thumb) or the first finger (that pick pretty much goes one straight, and my finger knows where to go almost every time). But since I want to develop some sort of at least "semi-pro" level of speed/proficiency, I know I need to get my middle finger, and overall right hand, into better shape than it is....

Richard McVicker wrote:Paul Did you receive the free pick I sent for you to try?
SADDLE

Yes, Richard - thank you again, so much! As I mentioned, I haven't had nearly enough time to get behind the steel lately to make much progress, but I have started experimenting with it and comparing its angle to the other picks I have around. I greatly appreciate the gesture, and I will keep chugging along with it....