Would like history lesson----MCI-EMCI guitars

Eddie Malray · From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA

Hello fellow members: I would like to know the history behind these guitars. For instance, when and who started the company, how did it evolve, and what is it's present status. From what I've seen, they appear to be a very well built guitar and they sounded very good. I'm not planning to buy one(not saying I would'nt)but I would like to know more about them than I do----which is nada. THANKS--------------Eddie Malray

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

My MCI sounds like crap.

Eddie Malray · From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA

Earnest: I've got an Emmons an a Sho-Bud. They sound like crap too. Wonder why.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

My MCI sounds crappier than my Sho-Bud.

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

I hope you guys are not saying that because Buddy Emmons had something to do with those guitars is why they sound like crap. I have a Mullen I am not totally happy with and would like to trade it off. My best sound I have ever had from a steel was an Emmons push-pull and I regret I ever sold it. As for the MCI guitars, they were already being built before Buddy became involved. Look at the Steel Guitar Classics video recorded in St. Louis in 1986 and Emmons is playing an MCI guitar. Not long after that was recorded I went to a Emmons seminar in Mesquite, Texas and Emmons was playing an EMCI. The guitar sounded great. On the Bell Cove video he is playing an Emmons guitar and it sure sounds good to me. I understand a few years ago there was a lawsuit involving Buddy and Ron Lashley. I never knew the outcome but Buddy is now playing Emmons guitars again. I do not know if you do not like Buddy Emmons or not but he certainly has made the biggest impact on the steel guitar. There are other brands on the market I would not say they sound like crap but they do not sound like what I want to hear. I guess that is why we have a variety to choose from. I just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

There has been a lot written about this here. I have never heard either an MCI nor an EMCI that sounds like crap and, to my mind, they are generally highly sought after for their tone. Obviously exceptions exist (sorry Earnest) and the world keeps turning.

[This message was edited by Jim Palenscar on 03 November 2003 at 07:55 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Sarah Jory has been playin'an EMCI for quite a while,
and it sure DON'T sound like crap !
(yes, i know she's gettin' a Mullen !)

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 03 November 2003 at 08:37 AM.]

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Thanks Jim. That's some bit of reading....

[This message was edited by HowardR on 03 November 2003 at 09:12 AM.]

Nicholas Dedring · From: Beacon, New York, USA

I may be remembering wrong, but I was told that Buddy Emmons had stopped playing MCI/EMCI guitars because he wanted to have a guitar he could get parts for, and so on... one made by a company that existed.

I have an MCI, Waco model (with a rebuilt job of the undercarriage...) I can't say I know enough other instruments intimately to have a comparison in mind, but I've had compliments from other folks who have played it. It's the same basic instrument that Chalker played in a video of his... reasonably light, stable instrument, which was designed by Bud Carter... triple raise, triple lower changer. Mine is wood neck, the Arlington MCIs, as well as so called "RangExpander" MCIs had metal necks, and the EMCIs were most all with metal necks.

You can try emailing or calling Bobbe Seymour, he's had a couple in his shop in the past year... he had good things to say about them when I called with some questions a while back.

Lawrence Lupkin · From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

I like my MCI but I bet I'd love it if someone competent was playing it.

[This message was edited by Lawrence Lupkin on 03 November 2003 at 12:55 PM.]

Bobby Sparks · From: Williamston, North Carolina, USA

Lawrence, you beat me to it! I was going to say my MCI sounds great as long as someone else is playing it!

Nicholas, mine is also a Waco model, and in my highly subjective mind, does sound good.

BNS

Eddie Malray · From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA

Boys-Boys-Boys: You need to go back and reread my post. All I want to know is some history about the guitars. I Did'nt say anything about Buddy Emmons. I don't know if he played one or not and don't care. I just would like to know about the company and it's present status. I WAS ONLY KIDDING ABOUT THE EMMONS AND SHO-BUD SOUNDING LIKE CRAP. Nothing on this earth sounds better. It seems some people don't have any sense of humor and can't read between the lines.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Eddie I have been playing an MCI D10 Rangexpander since 1986 - wonderful guitar, and better than my previous ShoBud Super Pro. Emmons was involved with the company at that stage, and Bud Carter and Gene Fields were building them at that stage with welded frames and metal necks (like mine is). The name change to EMCI (E=Emmons) happened not long after i got my guitar in 86', but the name name was the only change I believe - the guitars were still being made the same at that stage. Not sure why they closed up shop because the guitars are fabulous - just upgraded my Pups to George L's and it sounds even better !!!

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I bought an MCI Rangexpander but it had some problems ( It fell apart). John Burkhead had me send it back to him and built me a new steel. It was an EMCI. There were some major differences in its construction. The biggest difference was the welded frame. It also sounded fantastic.

Bob

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

I'd love to see a EMCI that sounds bad, It would be the first one. This guitar was from the master mind of a great steel builder and designer named John Birkhead.
It has been stated by many great players as the greatest sounding All-Pull guitar ever made. I don't go quite this far but it truly does have a great reputation for producing a "Great Sound". I'm looking for one to purchase for myself now. Great guitars.
If you guys hear any that don't sound good, it may not be the fault of the guitar! (know what I mean Vern?)
Have any of you guys ever heard any of Rob Parkers albums? I used a EMCI on several of these sessions. Most folks think it was my P-P Emmons. It sounded great! Ask players like Jay Dee Manius, Mike Cass, Buddy Emmons,Sarah Jory, etc. Honestly , very good guitars, in every respect. Parts? GFI parts will work wonderfully on them! So will some others.
bobbeseymour

Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

The Mci was originally built in Waco with Bud Carter's design. The company was bought by John Burkhead and moved to Arlington. Gene Fields, Red Rhodes, and Buddy Emmons had input on the guitar design. It was after Buddy's entry, the name was changed to EMCI. Jim Smith who was orignally with Dekley was also with the Co. All these people I mentioned were super players and innovators. The EMCI was probably one of the best all pull guitars built.(IMHO) The Co. was sold to Gretch. End of story. Jody.

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

Eddie, I understood what you meant I think. I took it that you were belittling your playing by incinuating "your guitars" sounded bad with you playing them. Maybe not but that is what I thought you meant.
Anyway, I went to Memphis today and met with Mike Cass and picked up a black EMCI from him. It is a paint peeler for sure. Ask anyone who was at the Tulsa shows the last two years. I have stated on this Forum several times that Emmons guitars are my favorite and EMCI was next. EMCI is a great guitar.
Jerry

[This message was edited by Jerry Roller on 03 November 2003 at 08:02 PM.]

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

Eddie, I apologize to you guys if I have offended you. I suppose I took the comments out of context. The main point is that these guitars are very good guitars. As I stated I saw Emmons live at a seminar playing an EMCI and it sounded great. I recorded it on a cheap cassette player and I let another gentlemen hear it. He was shocked at how well it sounded being recorded on a cheap player. I on the other hand do look at what other steel players use. I figure that the name players do not use junk, especially if they are playing for their income.

Lawrence Lupkin · From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

How do I know which MCI I have?

John Lazarus · From: Tucson, AZ.

I've had an EMCI for about three years now, and I think is still the benchmark of tone. I am convinced that not all guitars of a certain brand sound alike(i.e. push/pulls), and this is surely the case with the MCI/EMCI's. Along with a couple of friends, we have purchased a bunch of these guitars of varying vintage and tried them all in A/B tests. All were very good, but some stood out above the rest. My EMCI sounds best to me, so it was the keeper.
Bobbe Seymour turned me on to the EMCI welded frame while I was in his shop and for this I am eternally grateful. They are lightweight, good looking, relatively inexpensive, and sound great in sustain and tone.
Finally, let me say that I not talking about the Waco model here, just the welded frame RangeExpander which can be found as an MCI or later as the EMCI. One very slight difference between the two guitars is an additional set of spot welds on the EMCI near the changer which was likely added to keep the changer unit from minutely slipping down in position. We have not observed this additional weld on any MCI's to this point. Also note that some of the early MCI's said "MCI by Carter" on the front decal and had a traditional maple front apron rather than the completely four sided aluminum welded frame. The foot pedal channel is of lighter stock also, not like the heavy extruded stock you find on the later MCI and EMCI. I have played two of these "wood front" MCI's and both sounded different but very good. The EMCI also has a multicolored fret board as opposed to the black and white of the MCI, although the fretboards and markings are identical in all other respects. Tuning keys changed over the years from Shaller to the Gotoh type found on my 1986 EMCI.
I have no experience with the late model "EMCI by Gretch" other than hearing Bobbe play one amazing sounding guitar in his shop. Maybe he can shed some light on the murky ending to the EMCI story.
Hope this helps.

[This message was edited by John Lazarus on 04 November 2003 at 09:12 AM.]

Gino Iorfida · From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

so is the EMCI/MCI tone more reminiscent of the Emmons tone, or the ShoBud tone...

More importantly, which new production guitar would more closely resemble an E/MCI as for tone/playability? GFI or Carter (both folks had an input from what I've just read

John Lazarus · From: Tucson, AZ.

Gino, The sound is much more Emmons than SB in my opinion.
As to Carter vs. GFI, I don't know but I suspect Bobbe would know! I've heard some good things about the GFI, and some not so good things about Carters, but I'd like to try both myself and form my own opinion. If I had to buy a new guitar I'd opt for the Fessenden though. It was the only guitar that gave the EMCI a close run for the money in tone and sustain.

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

The "murky ending" to EMCI was an intresting story that I was in the middle of.

The president of EMCI, John Birkhead, wanted to buy the Sho-Bud company and asked me to set up a meeting with Fred Grestch. I did, and the meeting took place. Both guys egos took over and a small argument took place which at the end of it, Fred stated, I'll just buy your EMCI company if you don't want to buy my Sho-Bud company. A month later , 6 eighteen wheelers pulled up in front of the EMCI factory, a check was placed into John Birkheads hand, the factory was moved to Ridgeland SC. and the rest is history. Fred built about 40 EMCIs, untill the parts were used up and he got the return on his investment, then shut the manufacturing down on this operation,
as he did Sho-Bud at a later date. A shame, the two greatest "all-pull" guitars ever built, in my humble opinion.

bobbeseymour .

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Not all EMCI's had colored fretboards (I have a couple that don't). It does seem strange to me that it would take 6 eighteen wheelers to haul what it would take to manufacture/assemble 40 guitars~~?

Gino Iorfida · From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

i'm sure the 6 18 wheelers were also carrying all the machining equipment as well....

... as for the tone, I'd be glad to give a review on one (or any guitar for that matter if someone would kindly donate one to me for such purposes

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