C6th vs G Am I missing out......

Russell Baker · Post by **Russell Baker** » 11 Apr 2015 5:07 pm

Ok here is my problem....

I have been learning Lap Steel in C6th
and I feel like I am making progress.

I bought a Square Neck Resonator (Dobro)
that I am doing some up grades on.

Some kind folks here gave me some advice
as to what gauge of strings to use on the Dobro to tune it to C6th.

I am not looking at becoming a Blue Grass Player
on the Dobro, but I just wonder if I am missing out on something by not biting the bullet and just trying to learn the Lap Steel in C6th and the Dobro in GBDGBD?

I play electric and acoustic guitar in a Classic Rock/County Band I want to add the Steel and Dobro to it.

I know that the choice is really up to me....

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 11 Apr 2015 5:12 pm

If your goal is to play dobro, as in the traditional instrument, than yes, you are missing out. The G tuning enables a lot of picking and also simple triads and their inversions for easy backing. The allure of the instrument in part is the tuning--it is perfect for it.

If you are simply playing in C6 because you like to play your own arrangements and simply like the sound of the resonator, than you're fine.

To me, they are different animals and yes, you are missing out.

Ken Campbell · Post by **Ken Campbell** » 11 Apr 2015 5:19 pm

I'm not near as acomplished as Mike is but I agree completely. Dobro tuning is specific to it and as Mike mentioned, there is a ton of straight forward stuff right there to take advantage of. C6 (my tuning of choice) is a totaly different animal.

Russell Baker · Post by **Russell Baker** » 11 Apr 2015 5:31 pm

Yep I feel like I should learn Dobro in G...

I see all sorts of songs being played on You Tube etc
in G and I think damn I want to learn that...!

I was thinking of doing the Dobro in C6th as a convenience so as not to have to learn two tunings!

But I suppose to get the most out of the instrument
I should learn in in G.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 11 Apr 2015 9:31 pm

And, as discussed on an earlier thread, the tone of a Dobro in C6 is usually pretty weak and unsatisfying.

Russell Baker · Post by **Russell Baker** » 11 Apr 2015 9:39 pm

I did use a heavier gauge set of strings for the C6th
on the Dobro than I use for the Lap Steel (but not as heavy as G tuning) but I understand that the more "normal" gauge stings will give me a better sound.

David Goodale · Post by **David Goodale** » 12 Apr 2015 3:29 am

I sometimes tune the 4th string D up to E in the open G on the dobro. Gives you the 6-1-3 interval on the 2nd 3rd and 4th strings that you have on the 1st 3 strings in c6 tuning. And a full sounding minor chord.

Jerry Tillman · Post by **Jerry Tillman** » 12 Apr 2015 9:20 am

I play a lot of different kinds of music with the G tuning.I get a lotout of the tuning by thinking of it also as e min 7th and sometimes drop the low G string to E but not always,there are a lot of people playing the root note most of the time.A cool song to play is Take Five in E instead of E flat,the whole song is right there waiting to be played.Just my two cents.I record a lot of reggae music and Im always in a minor chord.

Russell Baker · Post by **Russell Baker** » 12 Apr 2015 10:09 am

Yes I will learn to play the Dobro in G...

Here is an Email I sent to a friend...

Ok in theory I know how to play acoustic/electric guitar.(grin)

I now have a Lap Steel that is tuned in C6th
and I have a Square Neck Resonator Guitar
(Dobro) that is tuned in G.

Learning these two new instruments is sort
of like being proficient in Windows XP and using
the standard key board and now someone throws
two new operating systems at you and they both use
keyboards where all the letters and numbers are
not in their usual place on the key board.

You used to be able to spell CAT with out even looking.
Now you don't know where in the hell the C A T
has disappeared to on two different key boards
and systems!

Paul Honeycutt · Post by **Paul Honeycutt** » 12 Apr 2015 10:23 am

Learn two tunings. It's not easy, but you'll have more to draw from musically in the long run.

Russell Baker · Post by **Russell Baker** » 12 Apr 2015 11:26 am

As I am spending lots more time now
wearing thumb and finger picks I have
found my Cats really enjoy being scratched
while you are wearing the picks!

Roger Palmer · Post by **Roger Palmer** » 13 Apr 2015 4:30 am

Never heard em called cats before!

I'm in the same boat learning C6th and G on the Dobro, I find I have have to spend a chunk of time on each like a few weeks on C6th and then the same on G, this seems to work for me

Stephen Abruzzo · Post by **Stephen Abruzzo** » 13 Apr 2015 8:48 am

The good thing is that C6 and G are similar in that G is 1-3-5-1-3-5 lo-to-hi. C6 starts out 1-3-5 lo-to-hi.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 13 Apr 2015 12:24 pm

i say step back from the overthinking techno-intelligent-musical analyzation and look for some simple basics of the instrument. that way you can start to get a feel for playing the instrument.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 13 Apr 2015 6:24 pm

chris ivey wrote:i say step back from the overthinking techno-intelligent-musical analyzation and look for some simple basics of the instrument. that way you can start to get a feel for playing the instrument.

I agree. I only use one tuning, C6. I'm not at all interested in the, "Dobro," sound. Everyone, IMHO, should pursue what interests them. I pursued several 8 string C6 tunings on both acoustic and electric guitars as well as C6 psg before settling on a 6 string tricone tuned to C6. Some players are able to do all of the above and more without ever settling. I forget who I'm quoting here. But to thine own self be true. Shakespeare?

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 13 Apr 2015 9:44 pm

Yes Ed, it's Shakespeare, from Hamlet.

A recurring theme in the Steel Without Pedals section here over the years is that a dobro tuned to Open G is by default going to put you into bluegrass and twangy country territory.

Take another instrument, the violin. If you play classical, pop, or jazz on the thing that's what it's called. If you play bluegrass, country, Cajun, or Celtic on it, the name somehow magically changes to fiddle. It's still tuned, most of the time, low-to-high, GDAE. Nothing changed with the instrument itself. To quote a line from an old Clapton song: "It's in the way that you use it."

G tuned dobro can be about anything you want it to be. I have played for years with piano players, non-bluegrass, non-country. The two instruments can sound really beautiful together.

Here is Rob Ickes with pianist Michael Alvey on the classic "I Can't make You Love Me."

Yes, his Scheerhorn is tuned to GBDGBD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9NTkX20hH4

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 14 Apr 2015 6:48 am

Here's gypsy jazz from Billy Cardine!

Yes, dobro G tuned.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 14 Apr 2015 7:14 am

Billy Cardine is incredible...he sold me his custom Clinesmith 8/6 console. The outside non-pedal neck has his GBDGBD, but kept his chops.

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 16 Apr 2015 5:10 pm

Wow,
That Billy Cardine has some monster chops!

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 17 Apr 2015 5:27 pm

Mark Eaton wrote:Yes Ed, it's Shakespeare, from Hamlet.

A recurring theme in the Steel Without Pedals section here over the years is that a dobro tuned to Open G is by default going to put you into bluegrass and twangy country territory.

Take another instrument, the violin. If you play classical, pop, or jazz on the thing that's what it's called. If you play bluegrass, country, Cajun, or Celtic on it, the name somehow magically changes to fiddle. It's still tuned, most of the time, low-to-high, GDAE. Nothing changed with the instrument itself. To quote a line from an old Clapton song: "It's in the way that you use it."

G tuned dobro can be about anything you want it to be. I have played for years with piano players, non-bluegrass, non-country. The two instruments can sound really beautiful together.

Here is Rob Ickes with pianist Michael Alvey on the classic "I Can't make You Love Me."

Yes, his Scheerhorn is tuned to GBDGBD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9NTkX20hH4

True. Almost anything can be done in almost any tuning. Sol Hoopii played swing in the 19 teens and twenties tuned to open G tuned up to open A. Try listening to his acoustic version of, "Hapa Haule Hula Girl." It can be done. But Soll Hoopii also began to experiment with other tunings to make things easier for himself as well as to be able to emphasize particular aspects of swing play. The open 5th in G tuning is particularly well suited for bluegrass and old timey sounds. It can be a problem in swing. In another thread, Billy Cardine mentioned taking special precautions to avoid this interval while playing his swing tunes. He made this comment because I noted NOT hearing it in the cuts I listened to. Different tunings are better suited to different styles of play.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 17 Apr 2015 5:28 pm

Jay Fagerlie wrote:Wow,
That Billy Cardine has some monster chops!

You can say that again. Ickes isn't too bad either.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 17 Apr 2015 7:06 pm

I like a 1-5-1-3-5-1, Usually in E. This eliminates the 3rd on the fifth string and adds a tonic or 1 on the top. This enables one to provide a good solid foundation without defining the major or minor. This is good for playing some classic rock like ZZ Top songs. If you want to try something different, raise the major third to a 4th (Sus). This is the same structure as the DADGAD tuning that is popular with some guitarists. I have enjoyed these tunings on both dobro and lap steel.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 17 Apr 2015 8:13 pm

Chris Templeton wrote:I like a 1-5-1-3-5-1, Usually in E. This eliminates the 3rd on the fifth string and adds a tonic or 1 on the top. This enables one to provide a good solid foundation without defining the major or minor. This is good for playing some classic rock like ZZ Top songs. If you want to try something different, raise the major third to a 4th (Sus). This is the same structure as the DADGAD tuning that is popular with some guitarists. I have enjoyed these tunings on both dobro and lap steel.

D and E tunings of the type you are talking about seem to be the tunings of choice for rock and rock related styles. BTW, they are also closest to the original slack key tunings that we originally used back in the 1880s and 90s.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 18 Apr 2015 4:15 am

Also, without the identifying 3rd, it is a good way to "map out" the chord changes on an unfamiliar song. Especially when playing live.

Stephen Abruzzo · Post by **Stephen Abruzzo** » 18 Apr 2015 5:22 am

Edward Meisse wrote: BTW, they are also closest to the original slack key tunings that we originally used back in the 1880s and 90s.

Damn Ed......"we" huh? That would put you about 150 years old. Congrats on making it that far.

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C6th vs G Am I missing out......

C6th vs G Am I missing out......

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