| Author |
Topic: Pitch shifter??? |
David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 6:48 pm |
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Ok guys, I'm looking to learn so maybe some of you can help educate me as my effects knowledge is pretty limited to reverb & delay.
I want to know if there is a pedal made that accurately lowers or raises a tuning.
Example:
Tuned to E-9 and an effects unit that lowers the tuning to D-9 or raises the tuning a whole step?
I've read about several units and watched examples on youtube, etc. The one that seems to be closest to what I'm trying to accomplish is the Electro Harmonix Pitch Fork. Only through the example on the video. But, still not sure it does what I'm wanting to do or if that even exists???
Thanks,
Dave |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 7:22 pm
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| Look at the videos on digitech polyphonic drop tune pedal. I have not yet tried one, but it is supposed to do what you want. |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 9:10 pm
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Larry, that seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. I also found a Mooer Pitch Box that seems to fit the bill even being a bit more versatile.
Thanks,
Dave |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 6:18 am
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| Dave, please let me know how it works out if you do go with one. I know they work well for a six string regular guitar. May be a cool tool to have. |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 11:46 am
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| I just tried what you are describing with my Eventide PitchFactor and it didn't work out too well. It's a great pedal that does a lot of cool stuff (quite possibly the most accurate pitch shifting stomp box pedal), but if you're trying to get a normal pedal steel sound (with chords) down a whole step it's going to sound weird. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 12:41 pm
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I don't believe there's anything out there that won't sound terribly cheesy and artificial.
Brad |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 3:53 pm
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| Quote: |
| I don't believe there's anything out there that won't sound terribly cheesy and artificial. |
You're probably correct, Brad. But it's not anything I'm looking to use continually. Only for certain songs that are in a lower key. I was contacted by a friend here locally that has a Digitech Drop and he said it works properly, but takes some getting used to. He kindly offered to let me borrow it to see for myself. However, I have a Mooer Pitch Box on the way so I will give that a try as it has more features with it other than pitch shifting. I will post my results when I get it.
Thanks Guys!
Dave |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 4:16 pm
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David , my line 6 desktop pod HD has that feature, if you want it to sound good hitting one string at a time is fine , dont make any 2 or 3 finger chords with it at all that seems to jam up the sound waves cheesily.
_________________
SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 6:30 pm
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[quote="David Higginbotham"]
| Quote: |
| it's ... Only for certain songs that are in a lower key. |
Perhaps you should learn to play in the key in question. The steel can be played in every key, including the flat ones we rarely use like Ab and Db.
In my opinion, Using a pitch shifter instead of learning how to play in different keys is a bad idea.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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David Spires
From:
Millersport, OH
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 7:02 pm
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My experience with the Micro POG from Electro-Harmonix makes me think that their brand of this type of polyphonic pitch shifting effect would work well, or even be the best at it. I don't understand how it can work, but it does (the micro POG).
I have to tune my Dobro and Lap Steel down a 1/2 step for Josh's show, to reach those keys in the correct location for replication purposes. I've often thought about re-stringing pedal steel, and tuning to D9th for instance... Paul's Ped-a-Bro is tuned there, and if memory serves me, didn't Jimmy Day tune to D9?
Best of luck,
David Spires
_________________
2021 MSA Legend XL 10&7; Asher Electro-Hawaiian Junior Lap Steel; '79 OMI Dobro 66 w/ Scheerhorn cone and setup; '64 Hand-wired Re-issue Fender Princeton Reverb |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 7:33 pm
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| Quote: |
Perhaps you should learn to play in the key in question. The steel can be played in every key, including the flat ones we rarely use like Ab and Db.
In my opinion, Using a pitch shifter instead of learning how to play in different keys is a bad idea. |
Mike, I have no problem transposing chords when playing E9th. I guess I should explain in more detail what I'm wanting to do.
I play mostly Cajun music and tune my bottom neck G7th which is set for playing behind a C accordion which is the most used tuning. So I can use pedals or play open tuning for a waltz or two step. There are some songs that were recorded in F and this causes me an issue playing whereas I can't play an open tuning and still use pedals. I do have a pedal and knee that drop my first 4 strings to open F. But of course I can't use any other pedals or knees.
Then there are times that the accordion player will change accordions several times as well and play a Bb or D accordion. On my D-10 I can hold pedals A&b and have an open A on the E-9 on strings 3,4,5,6. But on my S-10 I have to use a capo which I don't care to do as it affects tone and sustain.
So, my desire is to have a device that I can apply in these situations so as not to have to retune, lose pedal and knees, or use a capo.
The mention of a D-9th tuning is a good idea and I've done that as well. I actually like the sound of a D-9 and of course there is an open G with A&B pedals down.
So my idea is nothing ventured nothing gained. It's all in fun and interest of playing and trying new things. Some work...most don't. But its fun either way! 
As for the Micro Pog...It doesn't work for that. I have one and it only lowers or raises an octave. Which means you will still have the same notes only in a different octave. Pretty neat pedal tho and can make some pretty creative sounds!
Thanks for the input guys!
Dave |
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David Spires
From:
Millersport, OH
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Posted 2 Mar 2015 5:42 am
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Hi David,
I'm sorry I wasn't clear... I meant my comments about the micro POG to just be a positive for the Electro-Harmonix brand and their handle on the technology, so if I were to try one, I would try their Pitch Fork.
Best of luck,
David Spires
_________________
2021 MSA Legend XL 10&7; Asher Electro-Hawaiian Junior Lap Steel; '79 OMI Dobro 66 w/ Scheerhorn cone and setup; '64 Hand-wired Re-issue Fender Princeton Reverb |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Mar 2015 8:43 am
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Sorry David. I did not know your unique situation.
Is it possible to play Cajun style on a standard E9, without using open strings?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2015 6:35 pm
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| Quote: |
| Is it possible to play Cajun style on a standard E9, without using open strings? |
Yes! And no one exemplifies this more than Richard Comeaux. Marty Broussard, Murnel Babineaux, and Danny Cormier are others that do an amazing job with this. But, it doesn't sound like the "true" Cajun steel played the way the original songs were recorded, with the exception of those recorded on E9th. And something gets lost in the authenticity of the songs when NOT using an open tuning. There are just things you can do that can't be done on E-9th, especially on two steps.
Dave |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2015 7:45 pm
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Dave - would a 12 string in a special tuning and copedent help?
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 4 Mar 2015 8:32 pm
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[quote="Mike Perlowin"]
| David Higginbotham wrote: |
| Quote: |
| it's ... Only for certain songs that are in a lower key. |
Perhaps you should learn to play in the key in question. The steel can be played in every key, including the flat ones we rarely use like Ab and Db.
In my opinion, Using a pitch shifter instead of learning how to play in different keys is a bad idea. |
You obviously aren't playing behind girl singers these days. My band does several songs in those keys. And they are the original keys on the records.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 5 Mar 2015 7:49 am
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| If you think about Ab and Db like a singer who accompanies themselves with an acoustic you're talking about the key of G and C respectively with a capo on the first fret. |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2015 10:14 am
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| Quote: |
| Dave - would a 12 string in a special tuning and copedent help? |
Carl, ironically I've tried this several times on 12 strings and most recently a 14 string with varying degrees of success. But, then comes the part of the comfort level and tone of the particular guitar. But yes, it does work!
As for the pedal I purchased, Mooer pitch shifter, it does what it says. But as Brad stated, tone suffers. It has a delay with transposing the notes so any other delay has to be eliminated. It also can't be run through effects loops as all you get is a space invaders tone. The pedal does some pretty neat stuff tho and it is usable and may turn out to be a pretty neat toy at a very reasonable price.
Dave |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2015 11:51 am
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I play or play around on over 6 different instruments. My curiosity in different tunings, etc. overpowers the feelings of discomfort. The trick is knowing which instrument I'm on before I hit a string. Just spend the time and embrace the adventure of a new instrument! If 12 or 14 strings does the trick for you go with that  I can't expect to get elecric bass, banjo or mandolin sounds on an E-9 guitar, or at least haven't got to that level of playing (yet)!
BUT..the POG II with the -2 octave is tempting me to try my psg as a bass.. sounds nice through my GK MB500 and Epifani 12" cube. And it sort of forces me to get better at picking and sliding
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 7 Mar 2015 5:17 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| In my opinion, Using a pitch shifter instead of learning how to play in different keys is a bad idea. |
Altho Mike can understand your situation, I would echo his sentiment for reasons of what position on the guitar looks right and sounds right at the same time.
If the position doesn't change and the pitch does, is that a good idea? We get used to what we hear.
I think the key part of the statement is 'learning how to play in different keys' as a way to survive.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 11:01 am
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| Quote: |
| I think the key part of the statement is 'learning how to play in different keys' as a way to survive. |
Charlie, in theory I agree. But this doesn't pertain to my goal in this particular situation. I've posted two Cajun songs as an example. One is a two step and the other a waltz. The accordion used is in the key of C so my open tuning would be G. But, they are played in the key of F. There are 4 ways to achieve playing the songs as recorded.
1-Tuned down to open F. Certainly not doable for only one or two songs. Have pedals/knees that lower to open F. I have that already. But, then I can't use other pedals and knees for these songs.
2-Use a capo on the first fret of the E-9th using strings 4,5,6,8. I can still use pedals and knees. But then I have to use a capo which limits tone and sustain, IMHO. Its also very difficult to do and takes a lot of practice. Murnel Babineaux makes it look easy!  But, if I'm playing a S-10 then I don't have the E9th tuning available.
3-Play it on the higher F&C frets. The songs lose all originality and I don't care for playing like this.
4-If my bottom neck was tuned C-6 (it isn't) I can use pedals 5&6 with the lower on the 5th string pull to F rather than F# and then I have an open F on strings 2,3,4,5.
So, the pitch shifter would be an option for these particular songs. Push a button and you're tuned down a step.
Try listening and playing these songs on a standard E9th tuning and then you will see what I mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxSgzCAcdK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fhAc1etSq4 |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 1:26 pm
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I have the Digitech and it work better than most, Call me, I can play it for you. 971-219-8533
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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