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Topic: MSA (round-shaft) crossbars getting loose |
Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 1:16 pm |
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I have an MSA U12 Classic.
The cross-shafts are held in place with a little nylon (Delrin? - yep) bushing shaped like a porkpie hat ( think the Heisenberg hat from "Breaking Bad") with an open top. Mr. Micheal Yahl calls 'em "crossrod bushings". Item #: 200-100-002 from his website-catalog.
Every so often, the bushings will slip towards the center of the crossrods, and the crossrods will move around. The result is that the guitar "tunes funny" and clunks a bit.
Funny thing is, the guitar is still playable. Holy cow! What a mechanism!
Is this just part of the charm of the guitar, or have I missed an adjustment somewhere? The aluminum apron ( which you remove to move crossrods around, add bellcranks, what not ) is screwed firmly on. It's trivial to put 'em back in place. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 6:38 pm
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| Mine stay intact...never had one move...tunes perfect everytime....sounds like you should replace them and ask if friction fit is sufficient or a dab of superglue as well. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 6:42 pm
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The bushings may slip out of the frame due to age or vibration and allow the crossrod to wobble about. To secure them, push the bushing back into the aluminum frame and put a tiny drop of thin glue or clear fingernail polish where the bushing rim meets the frame. (Capillary action will pull the glue into the crevice.) Let it sit overnight to dry and it's a done deal.  |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 6:53 pm
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In all my years of playing MSA steels[ I have had 7 of them], I have never once seen the delrin cross shaft bushings move... Here is what I would do.. I would remove the cross shafts in question, and make SURE the holes in the aluminum frame the bushing fit into are squeaky clean, and the bushings are super clean as well. They should press fit nicely in the holes, and able to pull out with just some fingernail pressure.. If loose at all, replace them..
Do NOT get any lube between the bushing and the frame when installing them.. If you want a tiny bit between the shaft and bushing its ok, I do it, but just a tiny little drop.. Many steel players don't even lubricate the bushings but I always did, very sparingly.. I suppose if for some weird reason the new bushings are still a bit loose in the frame, you could put a tiny bit of silicone on the outer edge where it contacts the frame as well, but I have never once seen the holes in the frame go bad... Let us know how you make out... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 8:30 pm
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I do not want to glue them - they're part of how you'd remove crossrods and that's more important than checking 'em every so often for slippage. It takes seconds to put 'em back in, and they do not come out even with a small screwdriver once in.
Obviously, if you pull the apron off, then the crossrod can move and all that.
If/when I do another pass on the copedent, I'll replace the offending bushings, but for now , I think I'll just check 'em before gigs.
It tunes *much better now* 
Thanks, gentlemen. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 11:24 pm
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| You shouldnt need to remove the bushings to remove a cross rod. .. not that i recall when i set my copedent up 15 years ago...i think everything on the rod can be loosened and the rod pulls through the bushing. |
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Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 4:44 am
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What I did was remove the back plate and turn the bushes round so the lip was on the out side refitted the back plate with small washers as spacers for the mounting screws, no more problems..
Jimmy |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 6:36 am
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| Jimmy Gibson wrote: |
What I did was remove the back plate and turn the bushes round so the lip was on the out side refitted the back plate with small washers as spacers for the mounting screws, no more problems..
Jimmy |
That's the correct way, they were in backwards
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 4:06 pm
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| I have had 3 msa guitars and have never had that problem either. Someone at some point in time must have been tinkering around to cause those bushings to get that loose. New bushings that either Jim Palenscar or Mime Yahl stock are super tight once you press those suckers in. Use a small C clamp and a bit of lube and your all good. |
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Brad Issendorf
From:
Lake City, Minnesota
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 5:24 pm
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The cross shaft bushing for the A pedal of my 1975 Classic got to the point that it would work out of the frame a few times a night on a 4 hr job. I just Crazy Glued it into the frame. That was like 6 years ago and I haven't had a problem since. Sure makes tuning tough before I knew what was happening.
Other then that, its been bullet proof since I bought it in 1990! |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 6:16 pm
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| Quentin Hickey wrote: |
| I have had 3 msa guitars and have never had that problem either. Someone at some point in time must have been tinkering around to cause those bushings to get that loose. New bushings that either Jim Palenscar or Mime Yahl stock are super tight once you press those suckers in. Use a small C clamp and a bit of lube and your all good. |
Yep - that's what I was checking by starting the thread - the real fix is to replace them, and I will next time I put 'er on her back. If those bushings are original, they're 40 years old and have served well and long.
But it's basically going to mean at least partially disassembling the guitar to check them all. Not today |
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