Seeking live sound advice

Caleb Bundrick · From: Arkansas, USA

Hello all, just joined the forum and this is my first post. Glad to find this community.

I started learning pedal steel in September and am now 5 gigs in. I think my live tone sounds thin, lacking the warmth and richness that I hear in the 90's and 00's country we're covering. I realize that a significant portion of a player's tone is in the hands but I wanted some advice on what, if anything, I can do to my signal chain to improve my live sound.

I'm using a '21 GFI SM10 > Hilton volume, TC Electronics delay, and Fender reverb pedals > Fender '65 Twin Reverb Reissue mic'd with a Sennheiser e609 into the house PA.

I can get a decent tone in my practice space. But I just can't seem to dial in anything that I like at the venues the way I could with this amp when it was part of my 6-string rig.

Any advice is welcomed.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

A lot of variables here... If you're getting good tone at home but not onstage with the same settings there might be some frequency masking happening onstage, especially if it's a loud band. Amp mic placement might be an issue if you're hanging that 609 over the center of one of your speakers(Sounds better if you place the mic closer to the edge of the speaker).
Yet another variable is what the soundman is doing with your board feed, as well as how much of your playing you're hearing from your amp and how much you're hearing through the monitors. I've used a Twin-Reverb Custom 15 with an E609 or SM57 and been satisfied with what I've gotten out of it.

Tell us more about the band, the venue, and your onstage amp settings and maybe some of the more experienced players hereabouts can help troubleshoot the situation. Winking

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Dave is right and has some good questions, lots of variables. Nothing wrong with your signal chain/gear.

I like to leave steel out of the monitors to eliminate that variable. Amp placement on stage makes a huge difference and higher amp volumes on a gig can impact perceived tone as well.

If you play multiple sets, try different amp locations on each set to see what you think. Directly behind, sideways pointed right at you, on a chair/stand, on the floor, etc.

On louder gigs with tube amp sometimes I need to back off the treble a bit too.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Excellent words above, although it is important to know that placing the mic closer to the speaker rim reduces low frequency pickup, which can easily become 'thin' in the PA feed relative to the true tone of the amp. Good sound engineers will listen and adjust, as a difference of one inch in any direction can make a huge difference.

If your amp is not turned up loud enough on stage you will hear it as weak or buried, if it is set TOO loud you will not use the meat of the volume pedal or the preamp, so that what IS loud enough will be thin sounding even when it stands out in the mix. This can be complicated if the sound engineer turns you up in the monitors thinking they are helping, but making it impossible to use the full range of the VP without being too loud on stage.

I deal with this challenge all of the time, and sometimes it's because the band is not leaving room for the steel to play. Of course if you're holding back so as to not step on the keys or guitars you're not going to find a musical space to produce those tones you seek. This can be an elusive issue, as in practice we can play all over the entire track, ignoring the other instruments entirely, and we will hear every note we play perfectly, no matter what the band is doing. It's not about volume so much as space, and it's an acquired skill.

I play with a super keyboard player who listens and adjusts brilliantly in the early sets, but once the alcohol kicks in I have to keep reminding him to leave me some room. In a real ensemble setting one must pick one's battles, not everyone is ready to make adjustments for others. 😎

Keep picking no matter what, you'll get 'er sorted.

Michael Hartz · From: Decorah, Iowa, USA

This is just my opinion but I think the Sennheiser E-609 sounds thin and brittle. It was supposed to sound like the legendary MD-409 but I don’t think it comes close. I prefer the Sennheiser E-906 with the switch set in the middle position. I think that mic sounds fatter/fuller and more like the MD-409. Just my two cents worth. 😊

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

What Michael said. Absolutely.
Neither sounds much like the 409, and the 609's response curve looks a lot more like the SM57. At least the 906 is a gesture in the general direction of the original MD409's balance.

George Biner · From: Los Angeles, CA

Are you talking about the sound out of your amp? Or the sound out of the PA? Or the sound out of the (your) monitor speaker?

If by "GFI SM-10" you mean a GFI student model, I had one of those and while they are a good value for the money, mine had a very strident, non-warm tone -- I went and spent more money on a Mullen Royal Precision and it has a much better tone.

Also, I bought a Sarno Freeloader and plugged it in first in the chain -- boxes like this vary the loading on the pickup so you can dial in different (warmer) sounds -- highly recommend get one of those.

Also not sure that if you get a good tone at home, why you wouldn't with the same gear get that exact tone live out of the amp. If the sound man is butchering your sound, that's a social interaction issue.
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