Coming in strong and clear

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 16 May 2003 6:03 am

Yowsa - Can anyone help me with a "technique" problem. I'm working a steady show with the same songs. I gotta come in big and strong with "Walking after midnight". (Guess what show it is!) Because of the stage size limitations, i gotta have my amp practically crammed right up against my head! There is virtually no house amplification so i gotta FILL the room with this easy intro. (E9th by the way) There is no reference pitch, so, i gotta come in after a piece of dialog, at pitch, to a count, loud enough to fill the room, with the speaker WAY to close to my ears!
It's tough because when i come in with that first note, loud and out of nowhere, my poor ears seem to just naturally say "ouch"- like getting a loud sound unexpectantly in your ear, i clam up and blow this easy lick consistantly. Trying to make it like a tennis form or golf swing but looking for help if anyones gone thru something like this. Mucho Gracias BUD

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 16 May 2003 7:15 am

Bud, can you move yourself back where the amp is and put the amp in front of your guitar? If it is an open back cabinet you'll still hear it plenty well, but not right in your ear. Another idea would be to pull your head back to get your ear as close as possible to the speaker, and play the riff to yourself right before the dialogue (or maybe even during, if you are quiet enough and there is enough other noise going on). Then you'll be ready and on key when you hit the real thing - like a practice golf swing. A final possibility is to rig up a set of headphones and a toggle for your speaker, so you can play the riff to yourself right before or during the dialogue, then pull of the headphones, flip the speaker toggle and let her rip. Just some thoughts. It's a tough problem.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 16 May 2003 7:24 am

Do what the tennis pro would do. Practice that serve a MILLION TIMES, with your speaker in your ear.

Seriously, can you play the lick 10 times in a row without a mistake? If not, practice it more.

As Dave suggests, sounds like more of a logistical problem than a technique problem (unless the answer to the question above is NO). If you have to play that part so loud that it hurts your ears, your amp is not properly located (DUH). The only question is whether this is the ONLY place it can go. If so, you'll just have to do the best you can. I usually point a speaker at me -- I like to hear me louder than the audience does. What you may have is the opposite situation. You want the audience to hear you louder, relative to what you hear. Is your amp on the floor? Can it be relocated?

Headphones might be a good idea, but not for 'Always, Patsy Cline', where the band is onstage (I assume that's the show to which you refer). I fully understand the space limitations onstage or in the pit. Are there options you haven't explored? The right earplugs might help.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 16 May 2003 at 08:26 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 16 May 2003 9:46 am

Do not risk ear damage! Use ear plugs!

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 16 May 2003 10:21 am

Thanks all for the replys - The amp cannot be moved-at all! The amp is not too loud, just very close to my ear, so, coming out of a quiet passage of dialog it is loud, but not to the point of needing earplugs. It's like a knee-jerk reaction. Quiet, then the lick in my ear, with no reference pitch, makes me tighten up and i frequently blow he intro. Yes i can play it ten times in a row, but remember, after the first time of doing that, one has a sense of volume, not to mention that reference pitch. PLUS i have to be looking across stage at the music director for the count-down, THEN at the guitar and hit it right on the money! Who would've thought something so "easy" would be so tough! Ya got ta get yer mind right Luke!

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 16 May 2003 10:22 am

PS YES i think its a logistacal problem.Thanks

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 16 May 2003 11:15 am

Wear earplugs.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 16 May 2003 11:24 am

What Earnest said!!!!!!! If your ear is too close to an amplifier that is uncomfortably loud, it could wind up working the way my left ear works. Not very well. All dating back to a badly thought out stage setup that had me too close to another guy's amp. Didn't take me long to figure out I was at risk of damaging my hearing. But by then, I had.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 16 May 2003 12:25 pm

I have worked shows like that before. there a pain!!!!you're working in a 70 year old building owned by a guy who thinks a radio shack PA can fill because "this building was built acousticly perfect!!" and then they want you to fill a 400 seat room with your litte amp----BUT NOT TO LOUD!!!meanwhile you're trapped in the back of the stage because we want you on the stage but don't let us be seen to much and to top it off the music director can't say "1-2-3-4" He has to mouth it and you're on the other side of the dark stage going "What???" Aaaahhhh what a life. I had a blast!!!My suggestion FWIW if you are wearing a cowboy hat in the show put
a snow hat on underneath it to cover your ears and then uncover them when it's soft again. Patsy's good but losing your hearing isn't worth 400.00 a week and all the suateed mushroom chicken you can eat!!!
I go out eatin after midnight....
SH

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 16 May 2003 7:05 pm

If you are looking for the music to go on forever, you can join us old guys who have two or three tones (not tunes) playing all the time in our heads.

Wear earplugs.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 16 May 2003 7:11 pm

I played for three months at "Medora" musical with a fiddle player who was out of tune blasting in my monitor and a drumer was next to me on my left, pounding that kick drum in my ear like crazy.Not to mention a sound man whos coments were a half of the time "how would I know"...I`m glad that is all over and done with.

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Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 17 May 2003 5:56 am

OK - I will try the plugs. Thanks for all the replys! BUD

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 17 May 2003 8:37 am

Bud,
I am certainly not a pro, but when I read the part about golf or tennis, I could relate.
This is not advice, just something to ponder.

Flinching happens to golfers, trap/skeet shooters, etc. The body has been trained that when I do this, I get that! OUCH. Been the cause of many a missed putt, missed target, etc.

Somehow, gotta retrain the body/mind to believe there is no pain. Maybe make it a pleasure.

A couple of crazy technical ideas. Some tuners have a tone generator. maybe that can be the reference. Ear plug for tuner sound, stomp switch to turn on and off. Ear plug speaker might help with the volume problem.

Wish I could do what you are doing sometime.

Good luck.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 May 2003 9:36 am

Welcome.

You can point your amp up towards the ceiling, for one, or any where away from your head. Also a nice Stetson, flattened and sloped down in back can be a real sound deflector that a lot of people don't think of.

{Played with an opening act for the Sweethearts of the Rodeo in 87 where they killed the lights on my side of the stage and didn't put me in the PA. ( They didn't have a steel I guess), I turned the amp up at the ceiling and full volumed it. Covered everything just fine)

I played for years under a low ceiling in a club with a monstrously high ceiling just off the bandstand. I don't know how the Session 5 held out so well. I got tired of the "compression light" being on all the time, so I broke the bulb.

Earplugs if nothing else.

"Huh?"

Eric West

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 17 May 2003 7:37 pm

OK Folks - Problem solved. Here's what we did- Took a Marlboro red and carefully seperated the filter from the body which i then set aside for later use. During the dialog before the countdown, i deftfully inserted the filter into my left ear, creating a sonic barrier between my left cochlea and the outside world of uneven vibrations.
Now- the song is performed, in this case, in the key of B natural. The music director would count off - 1-2-123BEGIN. So on the 3, the music director willingly agreed to play a high F# note on his electronic piano, thereby providing my with a point of reference pitch, on the 3 beat, so i can be looking at the fret board and come in on the 4, as i should. This eliminated the problem of reference pitch, AND looking across the stage. The only remaining weakness is the reference volume, but since i can hear a sound, the piano F#, i just give it half a volume pedal and bust my way in, in pitch, and on the proper count. The only thing you hear is that F# which is OK with the director, and does'nt interfere with the dialog. During an interlude in the song and unbenounst to the other performers, i remove the aformentioned filter from my ear, and save it till break, when i carefully re-attach it, using the laws of gravity, to its now reunited body of the red, which i may now enjoy on my break.
Now i am not condoning smoking. Other elements could, concievably be used. Like an earplug. This method however, passed the test this evening to overwhelming SUCCESS!!
Thanks for all the replys and input. BUD

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 18 May 2003 1:04 pm

So on the 3, the music director willingly agreed to play a high F# note on his electronic piano, thereby providing my with a point of reference pitch, on the 3 beat, so i can be looking at the fret board and come in on the 4, as i should.

on Sesame Street they call this "co-op-er-a-tion"

keep smilin' Bud!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 18 May 2003 2:12 pm

Took a Marlboro red and carefully seperated the filter from the body which i then set aside for later use. During the dialog before the countdown, i deftfully inserted the filter into my left ear

And on the Forum, we call that IM-PROV-I-SA-TION.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 18 May 2003 at 03:13 PM.]