The Steel Guitar Forum

I quit last night, I give up, I cannot take the disrespect to other players, quest singers and club members by playing so damned loud.

But here is the thing, the band looses a multi instrumentals who sings. The audience looses a well liked band member who they really relate to on every level. So who really wins, no one, every one looses, not my ideas of a good situation.

Oh what inflated egos will do for attention.

Next!!!

why do guitar players have to play so loud?

Been there, done that. I quit too. : )

Larry, I hear what you are saying (now that my ears have recovered).
As a guitar player and pedal steeler I have observed this about loud guitar players.
When the offenders (they really are a minority) play guitars like Teles and LP's. The volume knobs are not that easy to work while playing (unlike a Stratocaster which is a little finger doddle).
So they " rely" on changing volume by supposedly picking softer - but they aren't really - they just think they are.
The other issue and probably the more important one is the sad fact that in most cases the saturated and distorted sounds work/sound best at high gain so as soon as they lose it they are in unfamiliar territory.
This is particularly the case with players that rely on tapping, hammering (on & off) to demonstrate their fast technique - once the synthetic sustain is gone once again they are lost.
The easy fix I use is to have a multi-effects unit with presets not only for tone changes but also for volume changes.
Sadly most integrated multi-effect units are just outside the IQ capability of many guitar players who STILL prefer a string of 'Toys' with a couple of knobs on them and use the excuse that 'I just like that sound'. I suspect the internal various tone circuitry of many multi effects is just the same as their 'toy' equivalents - it's just more integrated.
But then as a player for 59 years what would I know! Maybe playing pedal turns us into 'cranky old buggers' - too late to change. I must add that generally I run into these loud players a lot less than 10 - 15 years ago or are they just avoiding the C O B.

It's not just guitar players ........It's drummers............ sound men. I'm certain that in the future a band is going to get sued because of noise exposure or fined by a local government for exceeding OSHA standards for noise exposure. I have resorted to in-ears for protection

Jim Park wrote:I'm certain that in the future a band is going to get sued because of noise exposure or fined by a local government for exceeding OSHA standards for noise exposure.

Played a bar in Frederick, MD (30 minutes outside the DC beltway)last month. In the foyer there was what looked a gumball machine but upon closer inspection turned out to be an earplug dispenser! Fortunately, nobody needed them for our band but I had to think the lawyers have been here.

Before rock-n-roll, the usual club "sound system" consisted of a 40 or 60 watt Bogen amp, one mike, and two 12" speakers.

Larry Behm wrote:The guitar player thinks he won

If the guitar player's goal was to run off his competition, he did win.

Yes that was part of his goal, I am the last of a long stream of steelers that have come and GONE.

Rick, in all due respect, I agree the guitar player reached his goal, but in his ignorance he lost.

Larry Behm wrote:Yes that was part of his goal, I am the last of a long stream of steelers that have come and GONE.

If he lives in his car, the twenty bucks might actually mean something to him. And I bet he's making $20 more a night now...

"Hobos are people who move around looking for work, tramps are people who move around but don't look for work, and bums are people who don't move and don't work. I've been all three." - Seasick Steve.

It's drummers....

Besides testosterone overdose, penis envy, the other whole host of "characteristics" endemic to being a member of a class of mammal wherein violence & greed are rewarded generation after generation by the process of sexual selection (oh yes, girly - that guitar player's a much better marriage risk than some lowly ol' steel guitarist ), it actually is - the drummers. The "big amp" thing came about because we DIDN'T HAVE PA's - remember? And any 210-watt Peavey-totin' steeler can own a piece of that - but the reason the "small amp" revolution is still a fail is the GODDAM drummers. CYMBALS.... just SHUT UP already! BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH. Jesus.

Tony Williams -> Ginger Baker - > Billy Cobham -> Keith Moon - > John Bonham, your permanent hearing loss in five easy lessons.

Yep Dave! I say it quite a bit. The drummer sets the stage volume. In In the days of great music that made sense, the vocals were miked up first and the lead and fill instruments just under the vocals. Last came the bass and drums because they are to ONLY support the time and tempo for the vocals and other instruments. It sounds much better like this no matter how small or big the venue. Now it is mixed somewhat backward from this because of the mentality of the general public. That's why the vocals are so silly and meaningless. YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM ANYWAY! It's nearly ALL bad Rock and Roll! I love the way they play music in Texas! I tell guitar players here in Georgia all the time that if they carried that distortion pedal out to Pearls or the Broken Spoke, they would throw there ass out in the street! Off my soap box now...

Billy Knowles wrote:why do guitar players have to play so loud?

Because a lot of us are "wannabe" steel players? Did I win something?

Honestly? I don't know. I used to plat guitar at the Saluda, SC shows. I was using a Vox AC15 once-15 watts. And all the steel players were using various amps, from Nashville 112's, to Stereo Steel rigs, through all the Peavey 400's, to the DPS 750. The Saturday night jam, was me, a bass player, a drummer, and 35 steel guitars. After a few numbers, everybody turned around and hollered, "TURN DOWN!!"
Larry Moore was the loudest holler-er amongst 'em all. I love him, anyway.

Bottom line the volume is the singers fault.
A good singer won’t put up with it and the volume will come down or some folks will get fired.
A bad singer wants the music to be loud because it covers for bad singing. Don’t be a guy in this band
or in a kitchen band with the worse kind of singer “the Wimp” who wants every one else to fight their battles for them.

Volume helll! I just hope I don’t look as pathetic as the rest of these folks in bands.
They look like they put on their cleanest dirty shirt and they smell like their car (dirty diapers, gas and oil) some of them a 70’s Geo, a 30 yr old 4 wheel drive P/U, an old Van that looks like they’ve been hauling sht in it and some Chevies all of them with twice pipes and no air!
God forbid they have free food at the gig (you have no idea).
And no I won’t say a word to the guitar players about being too loud because they are already mad at me because I refused to loan them money.
I sure don’t want to make these folks mad.
They have no day job and never have, so they have nothing to do all day but figure out ways to make my life a living helll!

Amps were put on the floor years and years ago. Then came the time they were put on a chair, and then on an amp stand that leaned back. All to improve the sound. Then the guitar players started getting all the effects including the dreaded fuzz. Rather than practice and learn some good licks, they just turn up the volume.
I figured out years ago, the guitar player stands up. The steel player sits down. The amp is aimed at the guitar player's rear end. It is aimed at the steel player's ear. It is a miracle I have any hearing left at all.

I am quickly developing a reputation as being intolerant when it comes to volume...WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING A PA, and MICING, if your going to overpower ALL of the vocal content...WHY does the guitarist insist on ignoring the DYNAMIC...ALWAYS????....If you are having this problem...I suggest you go to the DRUMMER first...Explain the CONCEPT of DYNAMICS, and the need for VOLUMES to change....SUCH A SIMPLE CONCEPT....yet so hard to get through some peoples heads..
Last week I attended a gig where my sole purpose was to sit, and strum my acoustic....Guess who strummed most of the same rhythm parts I was playing...?...4 times I HAD to look at him with that >>>"REALLY?"<<< LOOK...Finally, I just bowed out of the last set...We will see what happens THIS Weekend....New band...

You certainly had more tolerance of the guitar player (to be unnamed) than I did! I only lasted a year or two. What seems amazing to me is that a player in his late sixties with years of playing never learned that the band is present to entertain/please the audience. You are the ultimate professional---glad you moved on!

How about the guitar player who insists upon playing loud ticky-tacky thru every steel solo?

UnPlug his amp when he is not looking and see if he can figure that out.

On my Thursday night gig a couple of weeks ago we had a sub guitar player who managed to play ALL the way though EVERY song we did. He's subbed on that gig a few times before and each time I've talked to the guy that hired him about his problem. This guitar player believes NOTHING EXCEEDS LIKE EXCESS!!! Going into our second break that night this guy looks at me and asks "Do you want to do an instrumental? I said no, but I was tempted to say No, but I WOULD like to play a fill every once in a while!!!

I hated guitar players that listened to my licks then played them with me with more volume and they would start just ahead of me.

Sing Folsom Prison Blues in Eb............they turn down on that one.

Not all guitar players, play loud. I've had the great fortune to play with a few that had nothing to prove to anyone. Knew every intro, break and fill, but always left room for the other instruments in the group they played in. These were a pleasure to work with, but they were not new to life and/or music. They were not professional musicians, even though they could well have been.

I've also worked with some of the worst and in my opinion, had no business going near a guitar, or any instrument for that matter.

Loud is not required, good is preferred.