S12 Ext E9 - How many peds/levers?

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 3 May 2003 1:54 am

Just saw in another post that most S12 ext E9 guitars has a 3 + 4 setup. I wonder how many of you that play Ext E9 has more than that. I have S12 ext E9 w 7 + 7. Playin triads open/closed voice is a breeze and 4note chords (maj6,min6,min7,min7b5,dom7,maj7,dim) can be found all over the neck in any inversion on the same strings (almost)
I feel 3+4 wont unlock the full potential of the S12ext E9.
The S12universal can be either C6 type or E9 while the S12extE9 blends everything into one neck for something that will cover any style of music. (My opinion)
So is 3+4 the majority of the S12extE9 setups?

Bengt Erlandsen
ZumSteel S12extE9 7+7[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 03 May 2003 at 02:55 AM.]

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 3 May 2003 2:16 am

Not me!
I have 6 pedals and 8 knees on my Kline. I think my tuning is in the archives somewhere.
Wish I had a 13 string-- with a low B on the bottom.

JW

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 3 May 2003 5:12 am

Ditto. But for the moment I can't afford another guitar w 13 strings. I just leave it to the bass to play anything below my low E
Bengt

Karlis Abolins · Post by **Karlis Abolins** » 3 May 2003 5:47 am

Bengt, Can you list your copedant?I am in the process of setting up my guitar for extended E9 and am interested in how you have done it.

Karlis

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 3 May 2003 6:15 am

Carter S-12 4p + 5l.

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www.newslinkassociates.com
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Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 3 May 2003 7:11 am

<pre>
LKL1 LKR RKL RKR1
String LKL2 LKV P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 RKR2
1 F# | | | | | | | | F | | | | | G# | |
2 Eb | | | | | | | | | | | |D/C#| | |
3 G# | | | | | | A | | | | | | | | A |
4 E | F | | F# | Eb | | | F# | | | | | | | |
5 B | | | | | C# | | C# | | | C# | Bb | | | |
6 G# | | G | | | | A | | | A# | A# | | | | |
7 F# | | | | | | | | F | | | | | G# | |
8 E | F | | | Eb | | | | | | | | | | |
9 D | | | | | | | | | | | | C# | | Eb |
10 B | | | | | C# | | | | | | Bb | | | |
11 G# | | G | | | | A | | | A# | | | | | |
12 E | | | | | | | F# | C# | | | | | | |

</pre>

P5-P7 played by right foot
P7 and RKL used very much together.
P1-P6 played by left foot
LKL1 & LKV might switch changes.
Low E-F# can be moved from P3 to LKV (4 E-F#)
LKL1&P5 splittuned to A
P1&P7 splittuned to C
All changes are put where they are to maximize combinations. Any two pedals from P1 to P6 has useful combination together.

ZumSteel S12 Ext E9
Bengt Erlandsen

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 May 2003 8:10 am

Bengt
I have adapted ext E9 to the hardware capabilities of about 7 different steels.
Here are some: http://b0b.com/tunings/ebovine.html

(error: on the Zum the 6 G# -> A pull is on P6, not P5)

The "old Sho-Bud" tuning has all my basics in 3+4 altho now I would change pedals 1,2,3.

Bengt and I share most of the same pulls, but I like more on the knee levers (always available).
Bengt has 4 E->F# on a knee lever. I have it on a pedal, or, usually not at all.
I have Bengt's P4, and P7 on knee levers.
I have Bengt's P5, P6 on P1, or P1 + P2.
Bengt cannot pull E -> F and G#->G together, which I like to do.

For me, doubled (staggered) levers on the right knee do not work. But I would like a cluster of 6 on the left knee, combining what I have on Franklin and Zum. There would even be an extra RKL2 to play around with.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 May 2003 8:11 am

I use 5+5. I don't see any reason to have more than that.

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 3 May 2003 11:05 am

Back when I played ext.E9-S12, I went as far as 6&6, or sometimes only 5&6. Can´t give you any definite setup since I changed all the time, but usually the ABC pedals would be on 234 and 1 for something else.

Joe H.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 May 2003 1:24 pm

If I played Ext E9th, I would treat it just like a D-10 (E9th neck). That is I would have the SAME pedals and knee levers I have now which is 4 and 6 respectively.

I would just make use of that bottom G# and E notes (whenever I needed them) to embelish my E9th playing.

However, no way would extended E9th prove satisfactory to me, no more than an S-10 with E9th on it would. There is just toooooooo much on C6 that I must have.

To me the answer is Universal-12 with 6 and 8, (BUT with pedal 6 on RKR along with a few more changes from a standard U-12).

carl

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 3 May 2003 3:24 pm

I'd like to see a new approach to the 12 string extended E9 Universal tuning with E6 pedals instead of B6. That way the bar postions are all the same and the tuning all blend into one key. Here is one I like to suggest , it is the same as Extended E9 EXCEPT note is added between the 4th and 5th string. C#. That enables all the 6th type pedals along with E9 all in key of E.
Here is one version, but I don't use this one. On mine I take the F# out of the middle and put different bottom like Curly used to have on his C6.
<pre>
...........K......................K...K
1-F#
2-D#
3-G#------------A--------A
4-E--------------------------F#...F...Eb
5-C#*------D-----------------D#
6-B----------C#------Bb
7-G#----------- A---------G
8-F#----------------------G
9-E...............................F...Eb
10-C#------D
11-B---------C#------Bb---A
12-E-----------------F#-----------C#
</pre>
put your usual A and B e9th pedals on and you got a five pedal guitar that plays both E9 and E6. (just like C6). Not bad.....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 03 May 2003 at 04:29 PM.]

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 3 May 2003 4:36 pm

If I could put the knee levers exactly where I want ( future guitar ) I could probably manage with a cluster of 6 (2vertical) on left knee and 3 on the right.
I can get all the combinatins I want since my right foot plays P6 & P7 ( usally in combination w Left holding P1&P2. Although sometimes left foot goes over and plays P6 (normally when E's are lowered w LKR)
I can do both LKL's at the same time but it is a little awkward and I have found that P3&P7 (or P1&LKV & P7) at the same time will do the same trick (will sound halfnote higher) and the 7th string can also be used in that position.
Reason for putting G#-G on LKL is I use it in combination w RKL 2&9 - C#
There are times where I could like one lever to be on the other knee but there will always be some sacrifizes w multiple knee-levers.

If I did not use both feet on the pedals my setup would probably have more knee-levers and less pedals.

The low E-F# on P3 might seem out of place but I have several uses for it.
One is P2&P3 and RKR(F#-G) gives me a beautiful pentatonic on the low strings where every other string is harmonized in 4ths for some overdrive rock'n roll.

Bengt[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 03 May 2003 at 06:31 PM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 4 May 2003 7:41 am

I played the E9/B6 Universal for a lot of years and went back to a form of extended E9th a while back and have been very happy with it. The only difference is that I tune my 2nd and 9th strings to C#. My LKR brings the both to D and my LKL raises the 2nd to D# and lowers the 10th to Bb. My LKV lowers the 5th string to Bb. My other changes are as follows.

P1...raises the 7th string F# to G# and lowers the 12th string E to C#.

P2,3,& 4 are about the same as the normal ABC pedals.

P5...raises the 5th and 6th strings a whole tone.

P6...Lowers the 7th sting and raises the 12th string. Both to F

P7...Lowers the 9th, 10th, and 12th strings a half tone each.

All in all, when you lower the E's it's like a C6th which has that D note tuned in the middle of it.......JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 04 May 2003 at 02:41 PM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 4 May 2003 8:33 am

P1...raises the 7th string F# to G# and lowers the 10th string E to C#.

I think you meant to say "12th string E to C#".

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 4 May 2003 8:38 am

5+5

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Bill Ford

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 May 2003 9:32 am

An Extended E9th is just an E9th tuning with two extra strings in the low end - G# and E. When you start adding B6th changes or other strings, it's no longer an Extended E9th, in my opinion.

You don't need extra pedals or levers for those additional strings. You simply extend the functions of your 10-string E9th into the lower register. The standard 2nd pedal now raises 3 G#'s instead of two, for example.

Since I usually use my "F" lever to get a C# chord, I lower my 12th string to C# on it. That's a logical extension.

I sometimes use my "C" pedal to get a Dmaj7 chord. I lower my low E to D on it - another logical extension. Bengt's low E to F# makes sense as an extension, too.

The main advantage of the Extended E9th over U-12 is that it has fewer changes. That makes it easier to tune, especially if you're not using equal temperment. Balancing the tuning of the E9th and B6th sides of the U-12 is pretty intimidating, especially for a beginner.

And I still think that 5+5 is enough for any neck. Just my opinion...

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 4 May 2003 1:43 pm

You're right Jim, I edited it. Just a senior moment I think....JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.