Seeking "Red Rajah Bar" Indepth Information

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 27 Apr 2003 6:33 am

S.G.F.M.,

A steel guitarist placed a "Red Rajah Bar" on my table last night at a local dance hall. It didn't take long to arouse my curiosity.
The first thing that caught my attention was the excessive weight which might very well present a serious challenge, in the course of stabilizing the bar, in its critical positioning. I am seeking answers to questions as to what is inside of the tough powder coating. It's called a metal tone bar. The price is clearly defined, as well as the length, color, diameter, etc. The basic metal that it is made from, is not mentioned. Is it non-magnetic? (An all-important feature) - It has the specific gravity of gold/lead, I thought to myself as I hefted its incredible weight. I would like to know the exact materials used in its production, from the very center to the exterior coating.

Bill H.
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 27 April 2003 at 07:35 AM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 27 April 2003 at 01:40 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 27 Apr 2003 8:59 am

Bill, I don’t know what materials they are made of, but This Page will give you some info. They come in different sizes, diameters, etc.

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 27 Apr 2003 12:57 pm

Doug B.,

Thanks for the information. I'll eliminate one of the questions, by testing the "Red Rajah Bar" with my industrial magnet. If it is ferrous metal, the magnet will cling to the magnet like there is no tomorrow. Quality bars are made from non-magnetic stainless steel. I'm curious to know what lies below the "powdered" coating of the "Red Rajah Bar.

Bill H.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 27 Apr 2003 2:23 pm

Quality bars are made from non-magnetic stainless steel

400 series stainless steel is ferromagnetic.

The BJS bar is hardened ferromagnetic steel which is then "hard chromed"...

The Pearse bars are actually "Martensitic Stainless Steel" (400 series) ... which is first heat treated (hardened)... afterwards he brings them to super low temperatures to convert any remaining Austenite to Martensite (the really hard "stuff").

As far as the Red Rajah/Phoenix bars go ... Chuck is continually "re-vamping" his powder coating ... The latest black coating is very hard and durable ... Plus he offers a lifetime guarantee ...

QUALITY ... BJS, Pearse, Red Rajah/Phoenix certainly qualify.

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www.horseshoemagnets.com

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Apr 2003 5:40 am

Rick A.

One of the best guides for a developing enthusiast, who possesses a keen interest in the metals, both ferrous, and non-ferrous is the trusted magnet.
Very rarely will a magnet stray from its course of seeking out ferrous properties. There are a few combinations of alloyed metals, which can trigger oversights, and allow for losses in the marketplace. I will be happy to present such combinations in future replies, should a given amount of interest be forthcoming in this thread. The bottom line bearing the greatest amount of significant data, concerns "oxidation." The number one enemy of ferreous groups of manufactured goods.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 29 April 2003 at 09:46 PM.]

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 29 Apr 2003 5:35 pm

My Two Cents: I bought a smallish 7/8"? Red Rajah and love it for Lap Steel. Finding I needed more weight for Pedal I ordered a Black Phoenix (just under 1" diameter). I love both the sound and the feel. (I still use a 1" bar when I want maximum sustain. But, if I want speed I use the Black Rajah. I love this bar!! Also, when it is really cold, I use it until the other bar warms up. (I won't tell you where I keep it.)

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 29 Apr 2003 8:43 pm

Buck D.,

Thank you for the descriptive information. I'll be trying a "Red Rajah Bar" soon. I had the offer to try the large "R.R.B." this past week-end, while visiting a local dance hall. When the band returns, I will accept the offer to check out the bar.

Buck, our 21st Annual Massachusetts Steel Guitar Bash, will be held on July 20th, in Lee, Ma. Please watch for details, which will be presented soon on this forum. The show promises to be full of talent, and excitement.

Bill H.

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 30 Apr 2003 7:28 am

Hello i'm a new player and was wondering why a bar would need to be non-ferrous other than rusting.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 30 Apr 2003 7:46 am

It doesn't ...

I just got a "Twister" bar (I'm a bar addict) ... 300 series (non-magnetic)stainless. This stainless is pretty soft ... more drag than I'm use to ...

I am sending it to be "cryogenically hardened" ... the only way to harden austenitic stainless ...

I'll report back when it returns ...

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www.horseshoemagnets.com

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Apr 2003 10:06 am

Wayne,

Have you ever taken a hard look at what happens to ferrous metals, when they are placed in the wide open spaces, of the great outdoors?
Oxidation is so destructive, that it would convert the unprotected ferrous bar to a pile of rust in a matter of years. When the steel is alloyed with other metals, it becomes immune to rust. The slippery surface created by adding chromium is desirable because the friction becomes virtually nil. Ferrous bars that are magnetic, is another thought provoking study. It has not been determined, to my knowledge, to what extent of differences, the magnetic bar has on the total sound of the instrument. I do know however, that if a ferrous bar inadvertently comes in contact with a powerful magnet, it becomes magnetized. Who is prepared to say that the effects on the pickups are too trivial to consider?

Bill H.
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 01 May 2003 at 06:39 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Apr 2003 10:31 am

Rick A.,

I'm very pleased with the information that you have generously submitted here on the forum. It is refreshing to read how much activity is actually taking place, wherever steel guitarists are gathered. Please let us hear from you, when your new bar arrives.

Bill H.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 30 Apr 2003 10:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Who is prepared to say that the effects on the pick-ups is too trivial to consider?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am

... and anyone else who has used a BJS, Pearse, Dunlop, Ernie Ball or Red Rajah bar (all made of ferromagnetic steel alloy).

Contact (direct or indirect) with pickup magnets (alnico, ceramic, etc) would not produce enough "induced magnetism" in a ferromagnetic bar to effect the pickup.

Now "zap" a BJS with my 40,000 ampere capacitor discharge magnetizer (saturate it) and there might be some effect if you are playing at the 28th fret ...

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 30 April 2003 at 02:19 PM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 1 May 2003 2:33 am

Rick A.,

In deference to your obvious electronic skills, I must concur that you appear to be very much up to date on the effects of ferromagnetic-magnetizing procedures. However, my curiosity is commencing to peak, in regard to "Horseshoe-Magnetic-Pickups".

Last year, I think that I may have come in contact with one of the first, if not the first H.M.P. made, here in Pittsfield, Ma. A project worker had alerted me that one of the tenants was about to throw out a steel guitar at roadside, where a clean-up crew would haul it away. I rushed down there with the engine roaring, and with anticipation to match my own, only to find that the "old" steel guitar, was non-representative of modern instruments. It was created from flimsy sheet steel, bent in such a way, as to taper down from the "H.S.P"., to the tuning keys. There was nothing but space below the folded sheet steel. Someone had built an elaborate pipe bench to place the old relic upon. That bench caught my eye, as every conceivable adjustment was built into the heavy pipe contrivance. I was baffled by the lack of stability found in the crude steel guitar, contrasting with the superfluous stand. There must have been at least a dozen large, approx. 1.5" diameter, faucet-type cranks built into the multi-bent pipe structure.

The rest of the story is that the lady was alone at her home, while her husband (the musician) was confined to a local nursing home. I stated my position, and soon realized, that the more interested I became in how much her husband valued the "instrument", (that she intended to place at curb-side), the more her rationale went haywire. She even declared that the nurses at the nursing home told her spouse, "We don't mind, if you want to bring the steel guitar, and play." Rest assured, the lady is as sharp as a tack, and no amount of money would stimulate a sales transaction. I suggested checking with her husband, hoping that he may have heard through the grapevine that my interest in the steel guitar has been constant for many years. I may try to ascertain if the "old" steel landed in the hands of a "collector", or if the musician cares not, should the instrument be sold for its actual value.

I'm getting the urge to visit the local library, to take out some books that will cover experiments that were made by William Stanley.
He was the inventor of alternating current, and it was first used in the town of my birthplace. I want to research some of the early uses for magnetic devices, and then take a second look at the H.S.M.

Bill H.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 1 May 2003 4:27 am

Before being forced to stop ... a few other companies back in the '30s used the horseshoe magnet pickup.

Epiphone made some nice models ... the first Electars and the Rocco were fine instruments that featured "shoes".

 I'd better stop or they won't let me "lurk" over here in the PSG section anymore ... and I like it here

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 2 May 2003 4:16 pm

Bill I may be wrong, but I believe Nikola Tesla invented AC, as well as the basis designs Marconi used to make practical radio. Read up on him too. Genius or crank he was an interesting person.

I will add;
I tried to order a RR and they don't ship here. I want to try a smaller bar, I have a 15/16th. I was consideringa 7/8 stainless double bullit. Or the RR 7/8 to 3/4.

Anyone use tapered bars on PSG?
Someone sent me a link for custom bars but it seems to have disapeared with the 100 spams I dumped recently.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 02 May 2003 at 05:38 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 3 May 2003 1:38 pm

Addendum : They e-mailed me back and will send me a bar here. Here here!

Still have the question on tapered bars.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 May 2003 at 02:39 PM.]